In honor of Rob Skiba’s “having your cake and eating it too” position of being a “questioning globalist” while maintaining a website The Flat Earth Theory dedicated to popularizing intellectually bankrupt flat earth theories, I would like ask him a new question. In fact, the question is directed to all who question the spherical shape of the earth.
How can an airplane like the Rutan Model 76 Voyager fly without refueling or stopping, in straight course and end up right where it started, if the earth is not a sphere? It’s been done many times now. That is the challenge, please use diagrams and mathematics to show how this is possible given your flat earth model. see
Correction: the course was not perfectly straight, rather the navigated around mountains and whatnot but the heading was still relatively straight. Here is the exact course (which still falsifies a flat earth):
Guess what? It had already been done back in 1949, traveling straight without landing once, but they refueled in the air. The flight instrumentation is very precise and the pilots navigated a straight course around the globe, how so given a flat earth?
The first non-stop flight around the world was made by, again, a team of the US Air Force flyers in 1949. Taking off from Carswell Air Force base in Fort Worth, Texas on 26 February, Captain James Gallagher and a crew of 14 headed east in a B-50 Superfortress, called Lucky Lady II. They were refuelled four times in air by KB-29 tanker planes of the 43rd Air Refuelling Squadron, over the Azores, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines and Hawaii. The circumnavigation was completed on 2 March, having traveled 94 hours and 1 minute, covering 37 743 km (23,452 miles) at an average 398 km/h (249 mph). http://www.didyouknow.cd/aroundtheworld/flight.htm
Stems From Bad Biblical Interpretation
What makes this all the worse, is that proponents of flat earth belief attempt to use the Bible to support the false belief. I agree that some passages imply a flat earth with a dome over it. But teaching earth science was not the purpose of those passages. God used ancient human authors and ancient human language to convey a moral/theological message. The original authors had a lot of backward superstitious beliefs but God still used them because he was not teaching a scientific message to modern people. To rip scripture out of its ancient context in order to answer a modern scientific concern–that would have not even occurred to the original author–is an abuse.
The Bible is a collection of 66 books by over 40 authors over a period spanning 1400 BC to 90 AD. The meaning of scripture is what the original author intended for the original reader and it is our job as moderns to learn what that was. It was not written to 21st century people, it was written to ancient people in ancient Hebrew and Greek, so it is written for us but not to us. It was written to the ancient folks, so we must endeavor to understand it in its ancient context not impose our own. Using the Bible to determine a scientific question like the shape of the earth is abusing the Bible the same way skeptics do in order to dismiss its moral authority. It’s about theology and morality, not science.
Bad Science and Math
The earth was proven to be a sphere in around 170- 180 BC by Eratosthenes, a
Eratosthenes
Greek scholar that lived in 275-194 B.C. in Alexandria, Egypt. He invented the discipline of geography, including the terminology still used today. Please follow the links to learn about the incredible power of mathematics. God created a mathematically discernible reality that we can describe in equations. The rational intelligibility of the universe is one of the strongest evidences for intelligent design — creation was designed by a logical mathematical mind. Indeed, math is the language of creation, it is God’s language. If your beliefs do not agree with the math, you’re probably in error.
You can use high school level math and geometry prove the earth is a sphere for yourself. It’s not at all controversial.
About Cris Putnam
Cris, I really respect your research, have several of your books and have recommended them to many people. I don’t necessarily believe the earth is flat but your responses (circumnavigation, NASA photos, and more) indicate you’ve never even listened to the arguments. These things have been addressed in flat earth theory and are compelling which is why I don’t think these people are nuts anymore. Just take time to look into their explanations to your questions. You end a question with a request for diagrams and mathematics and the statement “given your flat earth model” but if you actually saw their “flat earth model” you wouldn’t have even asked the question. They addressed it. I think you are a very smart, genuine and sincerely Faithful man but this makes you look less than that. For me, their arguments make me realize that I don’t truly know the nature of much of what I have been “taught” given the deep deception by our enemy, which you acknowledge about so many other topics. Why does this one, as strange as it might seem, stir so many to attack and ridicule in a merciless way?
God bless you Cris. You have been a source of Biblical understanding to me and I am grateful.
And just to be a little more complete in addressing your refutations in this blog, Eratosthenes calculations would work on a flat plane as well if the sun were much smaller and much closer to the earth. So even if it’s proven a globe today, the math is not proof at all. It’s only a plausible explanation. That’s what I believe the enemy often uses in deception.
Tom T said every thing I was going to! Chris I love your work Brother but the flat earth or flat plane is not going away all of the questions you asked are answered many times. Are you really wanting to follow the truth no matter where it leads? I recommend starting with Mark Sargents flat earth clues on you tube! Part two is the really good one with Admiral Bird talking about a massive new land uncovered by ice filled with natural resources A mountain of coal! Then boom The Antarctic is off limits! Then they start nuking the high atmosphere! Operation FishBowl!!!! I f you want to hang on to your globe go right ahead but you will be proven wrong in the end. I can’t believe you trust any thing the NASA NAZI folks tell you. Look at it a little bit more It’s just like 911 right in your face but you can’t see it unless you are willing to look! For me it’s the high altitude HD cameras showing a flat plane with eye level horizon line and seeing the curvature tests by youtube guys like Jeranism He does a 4 and 8 mile test and they show no curvature and according to the ball earthers spherical geometry states there is a 8 inch squared drop per mile! But that is not what we see! Why? Because we are being lied to! Watch these please! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5KYftC-Rs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8eIuT-nSAs
The flat earth theory can’t reconcile different constellations in the northern and southern skies. The southern hemisphere has a point in the sky where the stars rotate around, just like the northern Hemisphere.This isn’t possible in this flat earth garbage that’s invading the conspiracy world. FET also can’t explain why aircraft and ships use great circle navigation. Face it,this garbage is being pushed by people with an agenda.. this rabbit hole is a dead end. Time to surface for some much needed oxygen.
https://youtu.be/a4CPL4mcpDc
https://youtu.be/3LEpjVsKEU4
These videos hit my two points I was trying to make.
See the videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVXa9jbSR7U
Flat Earth Star Trails Explained
7 minute mark is very important
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVXa9jbSR7U
NASA and modern astronomy claim that star-trails in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise, while those in the North rotate counter-clockwise and provide this as proof positive of their spinning ball-Earth. In reality, however, the Earth is an extended flat plane and all the stars and other celestial bodies rotate
These issues have been sufficiently address search flat earth constellation or stars on YouTube. I will provide some links this evening when I am back home.
https://www.aviationweather.gov/satellite/intl?region=k
Real time sattelite feed from the GOES weather satellites……of Antarctica.
Also..your first name/last name combo is what the satanic people use in forums and comment sections …just sayin. Flat earth, real earth, whatever. The bible says that one day God will show us the mysteries of the universe.until then , there is an unsaved and dying world out there that needs to hear the saving gospel of Jesus. I’m done wasting time on this subject. Be blessed.
just to be sure of the apologist side of this website……do you believe the heavens and the earth were created before the sun, moon and the stars? Most spherologists forget that important side of the biblical timeline of creation. The heavens are declared the waters from above and those from below and that the dry land that appeared is called earth all prior to the creation of sun moon and stars for the creation of time.
Thank you Cris. You are 100% correct. NASA lies sometimes, BUT in this case the Earth is still a sphere. Nothing makes Christians look more stupid than to say Earth is flat. I know there are trolls and paid shills to confuse us, but 2 + 2 is NOT 5. I live near the ocean and near thousands of lakes; none of these surfaces are flat. Big ocean tankers many miles out disappear from the bottom while you can still see their top with binoculars or telescope. The lake in front of my house is over 1.5 miles across. With a scope, I can see people on the other shore when I am standing up, because my eyes are 6 feet above the water. BUT the lake surface is curved and drops about 1 foot in that 1.5 mile distance. Because when the lake is calm, I can lay down on the boat ramp next to the water and look at the other shore again with my scope and my eye touching the water level. Then about 12 inches of the bottom legs, and docks, and boat bottoms of objects on the other shore disappear from straight line-of-sight view and can not be seen. If I stand back up with my eyes now 6 feet above the shore, I am above the curve of the lake and see peoples feet and shore-line objects again. This simple TEST works east to west or north to south on any lake that I have ever tried, or in the ocean on bigger objects like ships.
I am a HAM-radio engineer and I know that the Earth is a sphere because all line-of-sight communication with hand-held 2-meter radio (no tower in use point-to-point) is short 20 mile distance. These signals dont bounce
of the atmosphere like HF 80-meter rigs, so the talking distance is short. Ask any HAM or Comm Engineer, the Earth is a sphere
I am a former Captain in the USAF, and have traveled the Earth in jets and have visited the southern pole near Antarctica; the Earth is a sphere ! IF it were flat like the UN-flag logo or wheel, the outer diameter would be 3.14 pi times 25,000 miles => 75,000 miles outer circumference of that flat-earth wheel. Not true! 1Thes 5:21 Prove all things, hold fast what is true
I work solar electric power systems and off-grid batteries and can capture 200 watts per square meter from the sun. But the full-spectrum energy available is 1000 watts per sq meter anywhere on Earth on a sunny day — so our Sun is generating more than 10**24 (trillion terawatts) every second — so the Sun can not be close-by to us, or we would be vaporized. The Earth is a sphere and our sun is very far away from us (ps: the Sun is a star and is a sphere also) –no matter what the Trolls and paid Shills say to confuse you.
Also all GEOS weather satellites at 22,300 miles above Earth every night on the TV news, track storms and hurricanes, and show the distances correct on the sphere of our Earth. Thank you for reading this, and God bless you
Says you! I know now I’m convinced. Not!
This is the tough part. You give compelling evidence. That’s great! But no one calls you stupid or says you look stupid because your evidence is compelling for sphere earth. But others give compelling evidence for flat earth and you say they look stupid. And a reasonable rebuttal is that stuff “disappears” because of perspective, not curvature. I’m not saying it negates your evidence but perspective is a plausible argument. Others have done the same tests as you and find different results (Bedfor Level experiment). Again, not necessarily “proof” of flat earth to me as I can’t perform the same experiment. So I have to choose between believing you or someone else who says they can. One thing I can say is I have spent days, cumulatively, at sea with no land in sight. It’s always looked perfectly flat to me. But I’ve never questioned it. I only question it now because I’ve only recently become familiar with the math that tells me I should see curvature. Or again, perhaps it’s optical illusion.
People also say they have been abducting by aliens and give quite compelling stories. That doesn’t make them true even if they truly do believe. The reason people don’t laugh at people for presenting the facts that the earth is a sphere is because each one of those facts disproves beyond a reasonable doubt every single fact present by flat earthers. That is the difference, and it is THE difference.
OK PFoster, you’re on, tell us how you know the earth is a sphere. Like you say it matters not what we “believe” all that matters is what’s the truth. So, just the facts man, just the facts, I’ve been waiting months and haven’t seen these “facts” so I’m really glad you’ve arrived to provide them.
“Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.”
– Albert Einstein
I would say that from everything I have thus far observed, appealing to examples of what we can see looking across vast stretches of water works far more towards showing a LACK of curvature, rather than the existence of it! Globe-earthers are constantly pointing to the alleged disappearance of a few feet/inches, while I have now seen dozens of examples showing areas which the visibility should be obscured by many tens if not hundreds of feet (due to the simple calculable amount of supposed curvature), yet the Globe model simply cries “mirage” or “refraction” in order to dismiss it. Nope. Fail…
And the Ham radio issue is a very interesting one too, because I find it fascinating that there exists such a thing as azimuthal maps for Ham radio users…. Why would that be of ANY use, on a ball earth? And oh yes, we always hear about how radio waves “bounce of the atmosphere”, in this sort of quasi-mystical, hard to predict way. Kind of odd too, don’t you think? Why don’t other kinds of signals “bounce off” the ionosphere, or other parts of the atmosphere, in a similiar way? And how DOES that supposedly work, anyhow? Radio waves, “bouncing” off of a layer of tiny particles, which of course are not part of a solid plain, but an ethereal, gaseous layer…? Is that “real science”, or just another one of those things that we all believe simply because we’ve heard it repeated countless times…?
As for your claims regarding amounts of measurable solar energy being the “same anywhere on Earth”, my own research has not indicated as much either. Have you actually installed solar panels in locations all over the Earth? Have you personally measured solar radiation levels at vastly different longitudes? Do you know for an empirical fact that the data being parroted throughout the industry is accurate? After all, people exploring the idea of a Flat Earth understand perfectly well that in order for there to be something to all of this, it would involve a MASSIVE conspiracy, involving everything from the “space program” to fake satellites and so much more. Compared to all that, making up things about “radio waves bouncing off the atmosphere” and lying about the electric output of the sun all over the Earth would be relatively small potatoes….
1) Ships hauls apparently sinking below the horizon is not a result of earth curvature. It is a result of perspective. See the video link below in my previous comments. I can produce the same effect to the naked eye and on camera using a toy boat on a flat 10 ft long table. myself and others regularly see thing at distances up to about 50 miles that should be 1000ft below the horizon. I have provided information for anyone near a large body of water to test for themselves. If can see things 1000 miles below the horizon then the apparent disappearance of ships hauls must be a result of something other than the earths curvature.
2) There are several problems with your perception of the view over the lake in front of your house.
It is true that water is not level! it always has some degree of motion. so you will always need to be above the motion in order to view over the water. Take lake Michigan for example. On a calm day the swells in the lake can vary by 20ft. in order to see over this your line of sight must be higher than the water.
3) It is true that our line of sight is limited by height however the math is not in line with what we would see on a globe. Our sight is limited by our perspective as outlined in #1 and video links in my other comments. I have given a simple example that people all “across” the world can test for themselves to see that things are visible that should be well below the horizon. Find an area where you can view something at a distance of 25+ miles and do the math for yourself. http://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/index.html
4) Show proof that water curves. Your claim that the water is curved is fictitious. Water always comes to rest at the lowest flat plane it can find. In every experiment ever conducted water is never shown to “curve” over any distance.
5) You are incorrect regarding 2-meter radio, some have a range upwards of 300 miles.There are many factors that influence the propagation of radio waves: Frequency, obstructions to the transmitter, obstructions to the receiver, antenna design, wattage, humidity, and on and on. Yes even the air itself is a limiting factor to the propagation of radio waves. The fact that earth curvature calculation are said in text books to be required in the engineering of radio, bridge, tunnel, and railway construction, in practice they almost never employed. In most cases where they have tried the calculations have failed. In practice nether you nor anyone else can prove that this is required as a result of the earths rotundity.
6) The “south pole” is a ceremonial pole not a true representation of the pole. You landing on Antarctica and viewing a red and white striped pole and knob dose not prove a round earth.
7) Having flown all across the earth in a jet dose not prove a round earth. Have you circumnavigated Antarctica? Did you have continuously have to dip the nose of your jet down in order to maintain altitude? Have you ever even traversed a southern hemisphere ocean on an east or west compass heading?
8) The same math for solar panel calculations work with a smaller and closer sun.This dose not prove a round earth.
Thus far you have not offered a single proof that the earth is round. All you have offered is assumption and conjecture.
FYI: even if the Radio transmitting antenna was on to of Mt. Everest the receiving antenna would need to be 20,000 feet high at 300 miles in order to receive the signal if the earth is 25,000 in circumference. This is simply not what we find in practice.
Re-post from 9-2 without link.
1) Ships hauls apparently sinking below the horizon is not a result of earth curvature. It is a result of perspective. See the video link below in my previous comments. I can produce the same effect to the naked eye and on camera using a toy boat on a flat 10 ft long table. myself and others regularly see thing at distances up to about 50 miles that should be 1000ft below the horizon. I have provided information for anyone near a large body of water to test for themselves. If can see things 1000 miles below the horizon then the apparent disappearance of ships hauls must be a result of something other than the earths curvature.
2) There are several problems with your perception of the view over the lake in front of your house.
It is true that water is not level! it always has some degree of motion. so you will always need to be above the motion in order to view over the water. Take lake Michigan for example. On a calm day the swells in the lake can vary by 20ft. in order to see over this your line of sight must be higher than the water.
3) It is true that our line of sight is limited by height however the math is not in line with what we would see on a globe. Our sight is limited by our perspective as outlined in #1 and video links in my other comments. I have given a simple example that people all “across” the world can test for themselves to see that things are visible that should be well below the horizon. Find an area where you can view something at a distance of 25+ miles and do the math for yourself. dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/index.html
4) Show proof that water curves. Your claim that the water is curved is fictitious. Water always comes to rest at the lowest flat plane it can find. In every experiment ever conducted water is never shown to “curve” over any distance.
5) You are incorrect regarding 2-meter radio, some have a range upwards of 300 miles.There are many factors that influence the propagation of radio waves: Frequency, obstructions to the transmitter, obstructions to the receiver, antenna design, wattage, humidity, and on and on. Yes even the air itself is a limiting factor to the propagation of radio waves. The fact that earth curvature calculation are said in text books to be required in the engineering of radio, bridge, tunnel, and railway construction, in practice they almost never employed. In most cases where they have tried the calculations have failed. In practice nether you nor anyone else can prove that this is required as a result of the earths rotundity.
6) The “south pole” is a ceremonial pole not a true representation of the pole. You landing on Antarctica and viewing a red and white striped pole and knob dose not prove a round earth.
7) Having flown all across the earth in a jet dose not prove a round earth. Have you circumnavigated Antarctica? Did you have continuously have to dip the nose of your jet down in order to maintain altitude? Have you ever even traversed a southern hemisphere ocean on an east or west compass heading?
8) The same math for solar panel calculations work with a smaller and closer sun.This dose not prove a round earth.
Thus far you have not offered a single proof that the earth is round. All you have offered is assumption and conjecture.
8) continued – Your statement “But the full-spectrum energy available is 1000 watts per sq meter anywhere on Earth on a sunny day” is deceptive although I don’t think you intended to be deceptive. The suns full spectrum intensity is higher in New York at solar noon than it is in Chicago at the same time. If your Statement were true the hottest point of the day would be just before sun down. This is not the case the suns intensity is highest at solar noon at any place on the map. This is exactly what we would see if the sun was a smaller and closer light source. If the sun was as large and as far as we are told the difference in intensity of light at the distance between Chicago and New York would be nearly identical, yet it is not. If your statement was true we would not have different climates because the suns radiation would fall equally everywhere from sun up to sun down. Simply look up some ultraviolet charts by time of day and you will see this to be true. The same is found with the full-spectrum.
windowoutdoors.com/WindowOutdoors/Sunburn%20and%20sun%20exposure.html
solarchoice.net.au/blog/homes-energy-usage-patterns-after-installing-solar-pv-system
9) Show me the satellites!
google.com/search?q=nasa+earth+images&sa=X&espv=2&biw=2560&bih=1339&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCMDgpvDo2McCFcnVgAodqZ8CDQ&dpr=1.5
Where are these 22,000 satellites? Even the nasa pictures of earth don’t show them. GPS, weather radar, and maps have existed long before man ever claimed to have all the satellites in space. Show me the documentation of all these accurate east and west distances below 30 degrees south latitude. You will find that the documentation on few verifiable trips across these ocean will show the ships continuously find themselves out of reckoning.
You have offered no proof of a globe.
God bless you as well and thanks for your service!
9) Continued – They cannot even keep the story strait. They say these satellites and even the ISS are orbiting in the Thermosphere, and that they use aluminium coated plastic for insulation.
Take a look at the temperatures that exist in the Thermosphere
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosphere
Now take a look at metal melting points.
tibtech.com/melting_point.php
I call BS they lie so bad!
8) continued – Your statement “But the full-spectrum energy available is 1000 watts per sq meter anywhere on Earth on a sunny day” is deceptive although I don’t think you intended to be deceptive. The suns full spectrum intensity is higher in New York at solar noon than it is in Chicago at the same time. If your Statement were true the hottest point of the day would be just before sun down. This is not the case the suns intensity is highest at solar noon at any place on the map. This is exactly what we would see if the sun was a smaller and closer light source. If the sun was as large and as far as we are told the difference in intensity of light at the distance between Chicago and New York would be nearly identical, yet it is not. If your statement was true we would not have different climates because the suns radiation would fall equally everywhere from sun up to sun down. Simply look up some ultraviolet charts by time of day and you will see this to be true. The same is found with the full-spectrum.
http://windowoutdoors.com/WindowOutdoors/Sunburn%20and%20sun%20exposure.html
http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/homes-energy-usage-patterns-after-installing-solar-pv-system
9) Show me the satellites!
https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+earth+images&sa=X&espv=2&biw=2560&bih=1339&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCMDgpvDo2McCFcnVgAodqZ8CDQ&dpr=1.5
Where are these 22,000 satellites? Even the nasa pictures of earth don’t show them. GPS, weather radar, and maps have existed long before man ever claimed to have all the satellites in space. Show me the documentation of all these accurate east and west distances below 30 degrees south latitude. You will find that the documentation on few verifiable trips across these ocean will show the ships continuously find themselves out of reckoning.
You have offered no proof of a globe.
God bless you as well and thanks for your service!
9) Continued – They cannot even keep the story strait. They say these satellites and even the ISS are orbiting in the Thermosphere, and that they use aluminium coated plastic for insulation.
http://www.tibtech.com/melting_point.php
Take a look at the temperatures that exist in the Thermosphere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosphere
Now take a look at metal melting points.
http://www.tibtech.com/melting_point.php
I call BS they lie so bad!
Hi, I would like to say that I am not hostile At all to flat Earth theories. I had the initial resistance like most people but I have come to find a lot of their evidence is quite fascinating. Although you say that you are not a proponent of the theory, I wonder if you have an answer to the problem of long days deep in the southern hemisphere. I don’t see how this could work at all in a flat Earth model. Ushuaia is widely considered the southernmost city in the world down on the tip of South America. It’s days during the summer can have up to 18 hours of daylight. And this city has a significant population so it seems like this information would be extremely verifiable. Again, I just don’t see how this could possibly work. It seems like that alone should debunk any flat Earth model that I have seen. http://www.patagonia-argentina.com/en/ushuaia-weather
The sun travels a spiral circuit back and forth between the equator and the tropic of cancer (north of the equator) from mid-March to mid-September. As a result the days are longer for those north of the equator than those south of it during this time. And the further north you go, the longer the days are around mid-June. Then the sun travels a spiral circuit back and forth between the equator and the tropic of capricorn (south of the equator) from mid-September to mid-March. Alternately the days are longer for those south of the equator than those north of it. The further south you go, the longer the days are around mid-December.
Moscow is at about the same latitude north of the equator as Ushuaia is south of the equator (1 degree difference) and their length of days are comparable on their respective summer solstices according to TimeandDate.com:
Moscow, Russia 6/21/15 17:33:26 of daylight at 55°45’N / 37°37’E
Ushuaia, Argentina 12/21/14 17:19:53 of daylight at 54°48’S / 68°18’W
Your article is ALL HEARSAY. YOU HAVE NEVER WITNESSED THE EARTH FROM LOW ORBIT??, unless you claim to be an astronaut also..(WTF?) You are simple regurgitating information passed on to you.. You are NO WITNESS..ARE YOU?
Questions for you, Genius:
1.No travel to south Pole? Why?
2.Why does it take the same amount of time to fly east or west if the ball is “spinning” 1000mph ( don’t use gravity as an answer, ulness you are clueless on physics, or just have No common sense, period.)
3. I have stood atop the volcano in Hawaii, No Visible Curvature WITH NAKED EYE? Whats up with that?
4. S.hemisphere commercial flight paths?- LOOK INTO IT. all routes that make no sense if the earth is round.. No Direct flights S.america to Aussie? Why?
5. I have gone sky diving at 8,000ft… No visible curvature with naked eye on cloudless day? Where is you MATH for this ?
6. Finally, friend of mine is a cargo pilot, 747@50k.ft.+, the autopilot DOES NOT continually point the Nose of the plane DOWN? This would be the case if you were to fly around a Ball, period, its simply physics , otherwise you would fly off into space…this is 101-stuff, no rocket-surgery here.. (again, save the “gravity” BS.)
In closing:
You should never speak on something YOU have not been WITNESS TO, this is upmost definition of Ignorance…you operate on HEARSAY from a place of Ignorance…
We are all merely human, I don’t want to see any of my fellow man ridiculed for Ignorance & stupidity.
PRACTICE CRITICAL THINKING!!
People do travel to the South Pole, there is an observatory there, its just that few people want to I guess. Would you like to? Why not book an Anartic cruise ?
Here is a website dedicated to it: http://icestories.exploratorium.edu/dispatches/big-ideas/the-south-poles/
Prove it.
Have you been to the South Pole?
If so how do you know you were at the South Pole?
Because somebody told you? G.P.S.?
How do you know it wasn’t just an extended edge of the Ice Wall? I mean Ice is Ice how would you know if you weren’t at the South Pole?
They can tell us anything they want, they control all access and info.
flat Earth theory does not argue that Antarctica is nonexistent. Show me all of the ships log who have circumnavigated Antarctica they are non-existent save for a few who spent upwards of two years trying and traversed 60,000 miles… Simply taking a cruise to the island of Antarctica for having a few military and or government sponsored base camp on the mainland does not prove A globe.
That’s right. There is a place called Antartica, the question is, “Is it what we’ve been told it is?”
Unfortunately, there are information gatekeepers and some are OK with that. “Suppressing the Truth” anyone? (see Romans 1)
The other responses to this are spot on, and once again, responding with an answer like “People have been to Antarctica” only goes to show how little one has personally explored this whole issue!
Absolutely, you CAN go there, just like you can go and “visit the White House”!
I guess all I have to do to figure out what’s REALLY going on within the murky depths of the military/industrial complex is go book a guided, controlled tour of the president’s home. (right?) So I suppose the same thing would apply to Antarctica….
Crazy conspiracy theorists…. Next thing you know they’ll be saying that the Vatican is behind some evil Satanic plot to bring about a New World Order using a false alien disclosure…. 😉
This argument is indeed compelling and it’s one of the reasons why I don’t subscribe to flat earth but circumnavigation IS explained in a flat earth model. But it doesn’t make me believe in a flat earth necessarily. It just makes me realize that I only know what I know about this subject based on what I’ve been taught. What if the stars aren’t what we think they are? We just make an assumption about how far away the stars are and that they are, to our eye, stationary (though we know that they are not truly stationary. Like all other objects in the universe, they are moving through space). There are indeed other plausible explanations of the movement of the stars given other assumptions about their distance and nature.
And it is now quite obvious that many things I’ve been taught through modern science are unreliable at best and outright fabrications at worst. Cris can attest to this.
And I don’t know who has an agenda. That’s my point. But I suppose everyone does.
The belief that everything should be questioned ultimately leads to doubt, and uncertainty which is antithesis to the Spirit of God. We are called by the Word to test, not question. The difference being this, a test has a point of reference, an absolute that is measured against, whereas a question has no point of reference, and is open to any possibility. Was it not a question that led to man’s fall in the beginning? Be careful what spirit you allow into your heart, and mind.
I appreciate that but, I don’t mean to be offensive, it doesn’t make much sense. You said “the belief that everything should be questioned”… Did I infer that I hold that belief? Furthermore, what are we called to test? (There is an answer to that) Consequently, are we not to question anything? But to speak specifically to what you seem to be inferring (that Flat-Earth theory is questioning with no point of reference), the Christian Flat-Earther’s like Rob Skiba would say they are indeed testing the globe based on the point of reference being the Bible itself and that it definitely describes the earth as flat with a firmament over it.
Outside of being just one more wedge to be driven between people at a time that we need to be coming together, what has the flat Earth debate produced? “By their fruit you will recognize them” Matt 7:16.
I agree this is strangely a HUGE wedge issue and I don’t understand that. The lack of mercy, from both views, is shocking. But there are many who are testifying that this has inspired them deeper into the Word. It’s clearly inspired some into cutting people with words too. But, if their testimonies are true, then that’s part of what it’s produced. Matt 13:24-30
Hi Tom, I first heard of the FE cosmology a few months ago and I’m amazed because I’ve never seen such a polarizing effect. I’ve seen Saturn’s Rings and Jupiters moons many times as an ameteur astronomer but wont argue with the Bible either which CLEARLY goes in harmony with the FE. Revelation tals about the Heavens being rolled up as a scroll ( Prophetic) and stars falling to earth. I’m trying hard to reconcile both theories….I just wonder if in a multi verse both are possible….Still searching…
One more thing, I studied FE theories to debunk them … Now its hard to disagree with some of their points.. I must also say that the FE theories hurt/create massive difficulties for Darwinism and Survivalist Evolutionary Theories so that too makes me wonder…
It amazes me the many so called Christians that ‘think’ an all mighty, all knowing, (that means more than you can even comprehend!) Omnipresent God, Creator of time; would bother to write a book for all of time who’s meaning should change to fit their time! His Word is TRUTH and should be taken literally, and read without any ‘worldly’ view, like a child! Being blinded by science is not the proper frame of mind to be interpreting timeless truths! Can I get an AMEN?? Re-read your bible with the Un-corrupted view of a child…………………..before that child has gone to the government subsidized schools where science rules, and there’s a globe in every classroom, and God has been kicked out!! Who do you think they (the educators) are serving? The bible says (Ps.14:1) that those who say in their heart there is no God, is a fool………..why do so many “Christians” believe in these FOOLS????? God says “my people are Destroyed for lack of knowledge”………………Destroyed!!!! FOR ETERNITY!!!!! (Hos.4:6) Don’t be Destroyed for bad interpretations and please don’t rely on only government ‘facts’…….cause they never lie,huh?
‘Modern technology” is a JOKE!! There’s NOTHING new under the sun! It’s been here longer than you bub. And NASA with all it’s ‘modern technology’ can’t get a single “satellite image” of “earth” but , they can “fly” through the FIRMament and go to mars!! And how exactly are we (God’ FOOTSTOOL! Isa.66:1 & Mat.5:35) spinning around a sun that God didn’t even create till the 4th day? (Gen 1:14-19)! That’s a good one! Hello…..anyone AWAKE out there??? Critical thinking skills activate…..Please!
Debra, you make some good points but this is the biggest point I try to make about all this. We can make our points with grace and mercy. Somehow this topic has Christians acting unChristian toward other Christians! What’s happening? Matt 24:10
Have a look at the following video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQw_C5KLhFM
Pause at apogee (1:50+/-) and hold an envelope on the horizon on the monitor..
Play following video as well…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvbN-cWe0A0
Pause as soon as it starts and take a look over Felix’s shoulder….
Also, hold an envelope on the horizon on the monitor once again…
What kind of turns are our GPS satellites making to get around ( or asquare) the planet? I think the rapture is soon so am recommending youse guys do like me and repent daily. I don’t have time to argue but I would ask u Cris how u know to who and for the bible is written ? You know the mind of God ? Now no leaning allowed.
Flat Earth Star Trails Explained – Very Simple to see and understand. Flat Earth Model works very well.
7 minute mark is very important
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVXa9jbSR7U
NASA and modern astronomy claim that star-trails in the Southern Hemisphere rotate clockwise, while those in the North rotate counter-clockwise and provide this as proof positive of their spinning ball-Earth. In reality, however, the Earth is an extended flat plane and all the stars and other celestial bodies rotate
There is nothing un-christian about passing on the knowledge of God and there is nothing un-christian about asking anyone to read the bible as the CHILD of God …..without the corrupt thoughts and views of this world’s “knowledge”. We are not to rely on our knowledge but seek God’s. My beliefs agree with God’s math….example….Beauty of Mathematics!!!!!!!
1 x 8 + 1 = 9
12 x 8 + 2 = 98
123 x 8 + 3 = 987
1234 x 8 + 4 = 9876
12345 x 8 + 5 = 98765
123456 x 8 + 6 = 987654
1234567 x 8 + 7 = 9876543
12345678 x 8 + 8 = 98765432
123456789 x 8 + 9 = 987654321
1 x 9 + 2 = 11
12 x 9 + 3 = 111
123 x 9 + 4 = 1111
1234 x 9 + 5 = 11111
12345 x 9 + 6 = 111111
123456 x 9 + 7 = 1111111
1234567 x 9 + 8 = 11111111
12345678 x 9 + 9 = 111111111
123456789 x 9 +10= 1111111111
9 x 9 + 7 = 88
98 x 9 + 6 = 888
987 x 9 + 5 = 8888
9876 x 9 + 4 = 88888
98765 x 9 + 3 = 888888
987654 x 9 + 2 = 8888888
9876543 x 9 + 1 = 88888888
98765432 x 9 + 0 = 888888888
Brilliant, isn’t it?
And look at this symmetry:
1 x 1 = 1
11 x 11 = 121
111 x 111 = 12321
1111 x 1111 = 1234321
11111 x 11111 = 123454321
111111 x 111111 = 12345654321
1111111 x 1111111 = 1234567654321
11111111 x 11111111 = 123456787654321
111111111 x 111111111 = 12345678987654321
Mind Boggling…
Now, take a look at this…
101%
From a strictly mathematical viewpoint:
What Equals 100%?
What does it mean to give MORE than 100%?
Ever wonder about those people who say they
are giving more than 100%?
We have all been in situations where someone wants you to
GIVE OVER 100%…
How about ACHIEVING 101%?
What equals 100% in life?
Here’s a little mathematical formula that might help
answer these questions:
If:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
Is represented as:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26.
Then:
H-A-R-D-W-O- R- K
8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98%
And:
K-N-O-W-L-E- D-G-E
11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+ 5 = 96%
But:
A-T-T-I-T-U- D-E
1+20+20+9+20+ 21+4+5 = 100%
THEN, look how far the love of God will take you:
L-O-V-E-O-F- G-O-D
12+15+22+5+15+ 6+7+15+4 = 101%
Therefore, one can conclude with mathematical certainty that:
While Hard Work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will get you there, It’s the Love of God that will put you over the top!
WOW! PRAISE GOD! Our creator is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords! He is coming again! Maranatha!
ilke your math beeter that is unreal!!!!
Debra those are awesome examples that I’ve never seen before! Thank you so much. God is great, truly truly.
I also enjoy following your work, Chris. I have to say that I respectfully disagree with your POV on who the Bible is written for. I don’t believe that God is incapable of anything, including writing a book TO all people of EVERY time. Remembering that we are subject to time, not Him helps me understand that God’s Word is to me and you every bit as much as to the earlier saints.
Being a female with God given intuition, FE resonates with me very solidly. I haven’t done any of my own experiments but what I’ve seen so far, especially Rob Skiba’s work along with Mark Sargent too is pretty awesome. I love to have my brain awakened by this topic… it’s exhilarating.
Debra, I wish we were friends, I love the way you think and write!
Amen Diana! Doesn’t God just leave you in awe with His creation & handiwork? His Word is True and I realize the deeper I look the more literal is.
Matthew 24:35 (KJV)
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
It’s as trying to understand the name of God revealed to Moses as the ‘I AM” which is His state, which word is not in time & in order for man to understand Him somehow, this word is brought into time as was/is/will be, however there is the error which comes out of this which in terms of Science become unto its Leavens called as ‘Evolution” which only ends unto denying the existence of God arising from ‘Intellect Stretched., cause God is Spirit, in other words there is no Mathematics to it, like unto the words of God “Let there be Light ” & there was Light” better understood through the words of Messiah “Arise Lazarus & Lazarus arose’ which contradicts the Pope’s words that god does not move about with a magic wand’ but brings things through Laws” is but trying to explain the so-called ‘Theistic Evolution” which the Church has been indulging into for about the last 50 years accounting for the decrease in faith. So, by his words to supporting Evolution “He denies the Power thereof”, but pleasing the Beast & The False Prophet. that he is set to address, unto the question from St Peter in the spirit “You HINDU CHRISTIAN” to say a christian that goes by this Evolution Belief which but amounts to denying the existence of God in the spirit, for by so doing how can one have the First Commandment- The Love of God in his heart.
Recently there was projected on a building in NY an Image of the Hindu Kali, denoting the godess worship -Evolution” .(Adding a “s” or an “ess” to God is to leavens even as mentioned in the OT ”There are no gods beside me”), for it was the same priests of Kali that killed Apostle Thomas denoting “Evolution against God & His truth”
Bible in Job does mention the spherical nature of earth. even its suspension(in space) & hence its leavens are uncalled for.. However in order to measure the distance from one end to other it has to be first projected on a flat scale & then corrections for its curvature is applied involving mathematics. In other words in Physical terms it involves science but in spiritual terms it is beyond science, , the Spirit being the basis of Life Man by his fallen self is denoted by the body leading the spirit the present state unto death , when by redemption unto the salvation becomes, the spirit that leads the body, the Resurrected state which is the Original stat, unto Life eternal, in the Father. , by Christ through the Holy Spirit.
There are contradictions that need answers. Antarctica’s frozen wall around the circumference of the flat earth. Why we do not fly over this territory. The absolute frozen barrenness of this land verses the Artic. Why is this land sealed off by international treaty. NASA probability as being complete liars as regard to space probes and the moon landings, flight times and routes for trips in the southern hemisphere, GPS and all satellites being probably non-existent, There are many, many more.
Contradictions do not exist in reality.
I think it’s hilarious how far out of his way Cris goes to try to discredit Rob. Usually by using falacy ridden ad hominem arguments, which is unbelievably childish. I used to enjoy and recommend Cris’ work, but he’s run me off with this vendetta. Really seeing the love here, Cris. That’s your brother you keep bashing, and he’s asking good questions that deserve good answers. But you’d rather let a facebook spat wound your pride and continue seeking the glory that comes from man alone, at the expense of real truth. All you’re doing is shaming yourself at this point.
Cris,
I want to answer your blog, A Question for Flat Earth Theorists.
Everyone says I have to be nice and respectful. With respect, the question is “loaded.” That is to say you assume the earth is a globe because of a plane flying in a “straight line” when actually that seems to indicate something flat. A line is flat; it does not have any curves. Therefore whether the earth is a globe or flat, the plane would have to “turn” to get “around” the globe, or to circle the flat earth. So the plane goes in a circle. The question is does it circle a globe or circle the flat earth. Circling in itself proves neither theory.
We all value “life changing truth” and we believe in logic. Logic can only take us so far. I believe a reasonable man would have to rest his case with the preponderance of the evidence.
The video you included attempts to prove Eratosthenes first established that the Earth was a globe. However, the experiment does not reflect on why his conclusions must only involve a globe and could never involve a flat surface. The initial measurements with the stick shadow and light source works for a flat surface as well as globe.
My wife says there is nothing wrong if the Earth is a globe or if the Earth is flat. Enjoy what God has made.
There is nothing wrong with studying and learning. That is certainly what we do in awakening and striving to embrace all that God has made.
The statement you made that this issue “is not at all controversial” is, respectfully, most obviously not the case, hence your blog. The link embedded with this statement for “PhysLink.com”
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae535.cfm
gives the same old unscientific reasons for a globe, relying heavily on NASA photos and composites. That is not direct scientific evidence; can anyone replicate or test anything NASA says? We don’t really want to believe in slick webpages or photoshop; we want something more logical and scientific, for example talk about the Michaelson and Morley experiments.
If the Earth is a globe, so be it! It’s got to be the truth though!
Read the Crazy Old Man below and review the bibliography. That was my first step to understanding some of the issues. The preponderance of the evidence should be valued.
http://johneriksen.net/blog1/2015/07/28/the-crazy-old-man/
if ancient man can map the stars that you cant see without using a telescope, yet they believed in flat earth and had maps of flat earth too , Mayans for example
Yes, please watch the videos on the flat earth, circumnavigating the globe is easily explained going east or west…. but nobody can do it north and south. You will see why if you take the time to honestly look into the subject. Your arguments against a flat earth are agnostic. Think about how a compass works… it always points to the north and only the north. The further away from the north pole that you go, the larger the circle will be going east or west until you come back to the same point.
Actually a literal translation of the Bible would lead one to conclude the earth is fixed with the sun, moon and stars rotating around it with a dome. The bible is a geocentric book to say otherwise is simply in error. You may disagree but you are using eisegesis if you claim the bible doesn’t literally say the earth is fixed and enclosed. In addition to the Bible there is not a single scientific experiment that proves the earth is moving, in fact every attempt to show this ends up showing the contrary. A good movie on the topic just came out. theprinciplemovie.com
This of course doesn’t show the earth to be flat but all the scientific and observational evidence that exists would lead one to find the earth to be flat if you hadn’t already had the conclusion in mind that it was round.
You may disagree but if you haven’t actually investigated the topic fully than you would have to be ignorant to come to any conclusion, especially if you have a biblical word view and you believe that there is a world of deceit that we must discern. To claim you know the Earth is round simply because you were told such by the mighty men of science (who claim they came from monkeys) then you are a fool and that is biblical.
The links you use to support your claim is simply lame. The math is quite simple as you say. Hear is a simple curvature calculator. Why it is that everyone who ever looks can see things at distances that require the object to be well below the horizon. This is easily repeatable simply go to an area where you can see a distant shore. Calculate the curvature and be in awe of how you can see things that should be well out of sight. http://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/index.html
I am fortunate to live in an area where myself and anyone else who looks can see a 200’ tower across a body of water at a distance of 50 miles. Said tower should be over 1000 ft below the horizon. The bottom line is, the only evidence that the earth is round revolves around nasa and circular pseudo-science (theory not proven that relies on other unproven theories).
To answerer your question,
2) No pilot can ascertain if he is indeed flying in a straight line. He can only be sure he is flying on a particular compass heading of which requires constant correction manually or computerized. Their ”precise instrumentation” only recognizes magnetic direction, it doesn’t tell you if it is a strait line. The flat earth theory has more than sufficient ability to reconcile this question.
b) Why doesn’t the pilot need to continuously tilt his nose down in order to keep the plane from rising in altitude? Why no matter how high you go is the horizon always at eye level on both sides and all around you? If the earth were a ball the higher you go the more you would have to look down in order to see the horizon.
I hope you can find a real question this is no proof of anything.
If the earth is spinning 1000+mph and orbiting the sun at 50,000+mph why is the N pole star always in perfect alignment with our supposedly tilted axis? Take 2 tubes and level strait up into the sky at 3 yards apart from one another east and west. If you sight through them you will see a star first appear in the east tube, it will then after become visible in the west tube. This proves that at a distance of only 3 yards our perspective changes. If you think we can stay in alignment with the north star during both summer and winter when will have traveled the great distance around the sun you are just foolish.
There are several problems with Eratosthenes theory; I’ll only name a few.
1) His math assumes with no proof, that sun is 100+ times the size of the earth and 92 million miles away.
2) If we calculate the size and distance of the sun, using the same mathematical triangulation he employed to support his theory we find the sun to be about 32 miles in diameter and less than 4000 miles away. Both theories cannot be correct although the math allows for either all be it, his theory uses an assumption.
3) The same experiment found in your video can be conducted on a flat plane using a smaller more focused light. Without the assumption that the sun is millions of miles away you can get virtually the same results. Frankly he hasn’t proven anything. He came up with n experiment that allowed for his theory to be correct however, it doesn’t prove it to be correct. Without the assumption regarding the distance and size of the sun one could just as easily make the math work on a flat plane with a smaller and closer sun.
This is exactly why I find it difficult to fathom that someone as smart as Cris and others use this as definitive proof. It is excellent evidence but not proof precisely because of your argument. And anyone who performs this experiment should realize it right away.
You’ve made tons of great points Joshua. When it comes to Eratosphenes “mathematical proof”, we should give pause to the realization that we could endless multiply or divide both sides of the equation, making the sun every increasingly larger/further away, and the “math would still work”! Heck, the same math could be used to “prove” that the sun is is only 20 feet up and the size of a grapefruit….
From where I stand, it would seem that the Copernican cosmologists play with distances the same way that Darwinian Evolutionists play with time. Add a few billion years onto your theory, to make it seem more possible, (and difficult to disprove). Add a few more millions of miles, and the whole thing seems to big and far away to wrap our feeble little brains around. It’s a pretty lame, yet effective, tactic…
Excellent point Daring. Infinite Time and Infinite Distance means no one can ever challenge the story. We just have to accept the dogma or be called names.
You cant circumnavigate the earth east to west and convince a flat earther that we live on a ball.. IT MUST BE DONE VIA THE POLAR ROUTE!. Sounds easy enough doesn’t it?
Circumnavigating the “Globe” pole to pole would be huge in my book, but I can’t find any record of it happening (please correct me if I’m wrong and the Clowns at NASA don’t count.) Everything is circumnavigating East to West. And of course North is still North even on the still flat earth. So compass heading doesn’t prove your flying a straight course.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/60at60/2015/8/1982-first-surface-circumnavigation-via-both-geographical-poles-392920
there you go , get it right round ye
Why not simply gaze upward and observe that both the moon and sun are spheres? And occasionally, by use of a good telescope, observe that Venus, Mars and Jupiter are also spheres. Then, by simple reasoning, induce that earth must also be a sphere.
Using the best telescopes on earth one cannot conclude that the sun, moon or planets are spherical. You cannot even conclude that the planets are indeed planets from a view through a telescope. You are simply imposing CGI pictures and what you have been taught into your opinion of what can be seen through a telescope. Have you ever seen the spherical nature of the sun, moon or planets with your own eyes, without imparting what you already believe?
I agree, I don’t believe it is possible to discern whether on object is spherical without a binocular telescope. (And even if you have a binocular telescope, with the distance we are talking, how far apart do the optics have to be in order to discern depth?) So those who say that they’ve seen these “spherical” objects are wrong. They are just putting their own interpretations (preconceived notions are powerful in how we interpret things) on what they see. We do not know whether these objects are flat discs or spheres by simple observation because of the vast distances involved we effectively only are seeing 2D not 3D. And if we are able to discern a sphere then it probably tells us the object is closer (a lot closer) and smaller.
Anon, one can do that and make the plausible argument that because other celestial bodies are apparently spheres the earth is too but that’s not a straight logical line. It might be true that the earth is a sphere but simply that other objects are spheres doesn’t mean the earth is necessarily. But you are correct in calling it “simple reasoning”. Simple it is. Reasoning it is not.
what about telephone poles disappearing in the horizon?
They do disappear but not in a curved fashion. This is one of the things that really got my attention. I frequently drive across the Everglades of South Florida. It’s as flat as flat can be to the naked eye. This alone didn’t catch my attention but close to Highway 27 near the east coast of Florida is a stretch of high-voltage towers that are quite high.you can see them stretch for miles I’m assuming well over 10 perhaps even 20. I base that on estimation of distance between towers (the span crosses the highway) and how many towers I can see. I would expect to see some sort of arc but it is literally a straight line across the top of the towers. Now understand this doesn’t convince me one way or the other but in conjunction with some of arguments for FE, it really catches my attention. The math doesn’t seem to add up here either given the formulation for curvature on a 25,000 mile circumference. Could be optical illusion too. Also I fly frequently enough to know that I can’t see curvature at 35,000 feet. Maybe others can but I don’t. My take away from all of this is simply that what I can’t observe for myself I can’t know for myself. And knowing the depth of deception about so many things including much scientific knowledge I must conclude that I don’t know for sure anything I’ve been taught on this subject.
The horizon we see is not a result of the earths curvature. It is a result of prospective. This has been proven over and over again. Have you ever looked into an “infinity room”? A flat plane that is below your eye level will always rise to meet your eye height. At the point your line of sight intersects with the plane you see a horizon. See link to some great videos on how perspective works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVNjaDtgFp8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BjRYBDAfYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx7nhnbDoHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRJw9gblf4Y
Cris you are a great researcher and I have benefitted from your work in the past, but this piece is just plain lazy. There is nothing that you wrote that hasn’t been thoroughly addressed by those questioning the “globe,” yet you just ignore those arguments and return to the refrain of “it’s settled science.” (Like “global warming” is settled science, etc.) That’s supposed to end the debate.
Have you talked to Rob Skiba? Or are you just playing the internet troll and taking a shot at him from a distance?
2 Thessalonians 2:11 (NKJV)
“And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, ”
What could be a bigger delusion then deceiving people about the place where we live? Are we really this insignificant little bunch of creatures on a ball spinning around at a 1000 miles an hour, going around the sun at 66,000 miles an hour, traveling through the Universe at who knows what speed? Are we just one of many worlds spread across the galaxy? Or, are we really the center of God’s creation like the bible says?
Biblically what came first, “The Day” or the Sun? Does the Sun make the Day, or does the Sun mark the day?
How is it that God came down and confused the language to disrupt the building of a brick tower meant to reach the heavens and we can strap a few Freemasons to the top of rocket and send them to the heavens? Oh, but our motives are so much better than theirs. Yea, right. No Babylonian cult religion going on here.
Real science is not dogma, it is research. I would love to see someone of your caliber sit down with someone of Skiba’s caliber and look at this seriously. I think there is ample reason to question the globe… and those who are telling us we live on a globe (have you looked at the B.S. that NASA puts out?)
Frankly, I’m tired of being told something by someone who was told something by someone who was told something (century after century)…. and calling that science. Eratosthenes means nothing to me. Is our world heliocentric or geocentric? That is an important question to me.
I applaud Rob Skiba and others who are researching this, if it really is a globe than it shouldn’t mind the scrutiny. If I’ve been lied to all my life about where I live I’d like to know. So stop being a troll and get to work.
Please Cris, it would be great if you could do some real research into this subject. Rob Skiba was brave enough to drive in and try to prove the earth was really a globe and shared his research with all. It would be great if you could do the same if God so leads you.
Karen — what isn’t “real” about the research above? I find it decisive, the counterarguments are not at all persuasive. Seems to me Rob simply wasted a lot of time.
“Seems to me Rob simply wasted a lot of time.” That would seem like its Rob’s choice not yours. And I bet he doesn’t feel like he wasted his time. Let me assure you it is your counterarguments that are not persuasive! Please, at least challenge me a little. I would love to be persuaded, are you up to the challenge?
These issues have been sufficiently address search flat earth constellation or stars on YouTube. I will provide some links this evening when I am back home.
Your questions have bee answered by myself and others. I have presented two simple and virtually free tests that can be conducted by you and anyone else who wishes that prove that what we have been told about the motion and shape of the earth is untrue. I am used to you using your critical thinking skills but if you think you have produced decisive evidence then you have just chosen to be blind and will not even consider the possibility that you may be mistaken. Can you not comprehend how circumnavigation would be possible on a disk with north in the center?
If we’re a ball spinning from west to east at break-neck speeds…..then why is a flight from NYC to LAX the same “flight time” as LAX to NYC?? And again what were we spinning around for three days before God made the sun on the fourth day?
Who makes themselves a footstool that’s a ball? Why after making the footstool would you throw it ‘into space’ instead of resting your feet on it?? Maybe the ‘sphere’ is the lie to keep you from “knowing” how VERY CLOSE GOD REALLY IS?!?!?! Maybe we ARE His footstool and He Sits Right above us!! Maybe the sphere is the lie the put thousands of ‘light years’ between God and us!?!?!!
Exactly! We are the apple of His Eye.
Check out on youtube: Zeteticism (Flat Earth) Vol 2: The Heavens, Part 1: The Dome Sky Ceiling & the Zetetic Eye
This argument IS bad though. The answer to your question is the same answer to why running from back to front of a moving airplane takes just as much time as front to back.
Tom not so sure Debra has a bad argument. An airplane is certainly an enclosed system. Try removing the top of the airplane and conduct your experiment. You may be right but I don’t think it is that simple.
If the Earth is spinning 1000 mph the would be visible and experiential consequences. How we experience various forces would be necessarily different in different parts of the “globe.” Just think about how we experience centrifugal force/gravity at Equator vs. North Pole. Again, I could be wrong, but I think we all benefit from this exchange. There has been more scientific discussion conducted on this blog in the past 24 hours then has come from the “scientific” community in the past year.
JAH, frankly the airplane illustration does seem that simple to me as both are enclosed systems, relatively speaking. I don’t understand the first sentence of the second paragraph. Also, we may well experience various forces differently on different parts of the globe but perhaps imperceivably. I can’t test this very well at all. But it sounds like there is little we disagree on and I completely and joyfully agree with your last two sentences!
JAH, to clarify, obviously there would be a different result in with running inside the airplane with the top ripped off. But I submit the same would be true if the atmosphere was ripped off the earth if it’s a globe.
I’m sorry, I didn’t do a great job of expressing that thought.
What I was getting at is, if we are spinning at 1000 mph and at the equator gravity and centrifugal force are balanced, i.e., we’re not flying off the earth or being crushed by gravity, what would the conditions be at the North Pole? There is no way they could be balanced in both locations. If we are spinning 1000 mph and you’re standing at the North Pole (the Top of the World; the rotation axis) or even as you get close to it would be an absolute nightmare. (Or visa-versa, If it’s balanced at the pole what would the equator be like.)
Ok, now I understand your point about gravitational forces and the spin on the axis. Yes, those are interesting points and seem to be testable if not perceivable.
You are correct if we are inside of a dome and not moving. The round theory states the the earths rotation drags the atmosphere around with it, Yet it says we are in an enclosed system so we cant detect the motion. One of the following two possibilities must exist if we are spinning at breakneck speeds:
Option 1) If the earths gravity is dragging the atmosphere with it as it spins than quite literally we should encounter resistance when we travel opposite the earths spin and we should experience additional push when traveling with the earths spin.
Option 2) If the earth is spinning but not dragging the atmosphere with it than if we take off and just hover the earth should rotate under us to the tune of 1000+mph at the equator. You could hover from New York to to LA in 2.5 hours.
Since nether of these exist in reality the earth is not spinning. Period!
Here’s some ancient superstition: Joshua 10:12-14. If the sun stopped and the moon stayed, that means the Earth stopped spinning. There’s a documentary about what if the Earth stopped spinning. Why didn’t any of the things stated in the documentary happen? Wouldn’t these things be recorded in the book of Joshua? Now I’m just a college educated truck driver, and I have never had a book published, but I am just dumb enough to believe the Bible as it is written. Matthew 24:35. If the Bible was written by a bunch of “backward, superstitious” men and not by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, as I was taught, then I guess we might as well just disregard the Bible all together, join up with the atheistic religion of science, party on and see if the superstition of hell really exists. Be careful my friend, because you may lead someone farther from God with your scientific B.S.
Some questions for you Cris:
Along with a spinning spherical earth ,
do you believe the US landed six manned flights on the moon,
which is assumed by the spherical earthers to be 238,900 miles from earth?
Can you show the rest of us an actual non-CGI, non-Photoshopped photograph of the earth from space?
How do you know the sun is 93 million miles from earth?
Why isn’t anyone – individuals, corporations, nation states – allowed to explore Antarctic?
How do you reconcile verses like Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable,”
and Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …” with a moving spinning earth?
Can you give us your understanding of the meaning and importance of “firmament,” found in Genesis 1?
“But teaching earth science was not the purpose of those passages.”
Really? That is your opinion, but many of us respectfully disagree.
Scripture says God placed the sun and the moon INSIDE the firmament,
not 93 million miles away.
KeruxReplies
As far as literal versus a literary why do we take Genesis 6 literal regarding the nepheline and not as allegory or literary? Why is it so easy to refute sons of Seth?
autocorrect. Nephelim
or Nephilim! lol
” The rational intelligibility of the universe is one of the strongest evidences for intelligent design…”
Indeed!! So what does ‘rational intelligibility’ have to say about questions like why we can observe things like a full moon, during the daytime….? Don’t those observations demand answers as well? (and the Copernican model simply can’t explain it) (“mirages”?)
If mathematics is “God’s language”, then why would we abandon the most fundamental comprehensions of basic geometry, angles that be clearly seen with the naked eye, in favor of convoluted math based on assumptions?
I just want to know the TRUTH, just like most other people, just like Rob Skiba. Your attacks on him are inexcusable, and your arrogant presentation of such assumed “deunkings” really only goes to show that you haven’t actually looked into yourself as deeply as most of the people who have had the courage to stick their necks out and question something, KNOWING the kinds blowback that would inevitably come from folks such as yourself, who apparently are more concerned with being viewed as ridiculous by the consensus.
Which, coincidentally, I find intensely ironic, considering the nature of so much of your own work! I mean, come on, UFO’s, and portals and “stargates” and crazy, centuries-old conspiracies inside the Vatican building up to some kind of possible “alien disclosure deception”…? These are not things any of us would be taking serious either, if A) we were holding ourselves in lock step with the boundaries of mainstream perception and scientific naturalism, or B) we were destroying the very foundation on which we stand with statements like “God used ancient human authors and ancient human language to convey a moral/theological message…”
Do you really not see the almost hilarious irony in employing the same kind anti-Biblical rhetoric used by liberal theologians everywhere to deny the miraculous and supernatural statements in scripture??? “Backwards and superstitious”…??? I mean really!! Well I guess then we’re going to have jettison belief in a Young Earth as well, or a literal six day Creation, or a literal, world-wide flood, or ridiculous notion of fallen angels having hybrid offspring with human women, or, the plagues of Egypt, or the fallen walls of Jericho, or the sun standing still in the sky (regardless of what shape the Earth is!), or silly claims about some carpenter who could perform miracles and then was killed and rose from his own grave three days later….
All that modern scientific “knowledge” scoffs at ALL of that as well, not just the idea of a flat or enclosed Earth. But perhaps it is because as Christians (and “fringy Christians” at that) that so many people are so viciously opposed to being ridiculed or maligned by the majority on THAT kind of level? Even if it is just for asking QUESTIONS??? The comments above already do a great job of pointing out all the gaping holes in “proofs” such as those of Eratosthenes, or a plane flying “straight” around the world (but only laterally, of course…) so I won’t re-hash them all. I guess in the end, what really floored me when I first started digging into this issue, was just how feeble so many of the “glaring proofs” for a ball Earth were being presented, when here we are, in the 21st century and there should be LOADS of irrefutable proof, in the form of photos, video, etc., showing the ball Earth from every angle imaginable. But what do we have? Hokey cgi images from NASA. People screaming about hulls of ships disappearing over horizons. Round the world flights going “straight”….
By the way, it is noteworthy for us all to remind ourselves that fellows like Eratosthenes (and Pythagoras as well) were not simply “ancient scientists” who were applying the scientific method in order to understand a rationally Created world, as we so often regard them today. They were Gnostics… They were students of the ancient “mystery schools”. They were every bit as much involved in numerology, divination, and astrology as they were in speculating about the mechanical workings of things.
Shouldn’t it be at least a LITTLE eyebrow-raising to note that the men who were steeped in the Greek/Egyptian/Babylonian schools of mysticism, were the ones who first started putting forth the spherical Earth idea…..?
Could an Evolutionary cosmology even be plausible, if not first set in the context of an almost infinite, self-creating, ever-expanding, Copernican universe….?
Could the very Deceptions coming from the Vatican involving our “space brothers”, and telescopes named “L.U.C.I.F.E.R.”, which you and Tom Horn have been diligently exploring, really be possible without a cosmology involving countless other “distant worlds”….?
Think about it.
Daring to look… Agreed. I’m also “daring to look!”
How about we look at the eclipses during the day when the sun and moon are both visible.
Well said! He has already made up his mind we will not change it, nay he wont even look to see if he may be mistaken.
not trying to defend a straight earth view, but you cannot fly a straight path around a sphere. It may be straight in one or 2 dimensions but not 3.
I agree but you could fly straight in 2 dimensions and go around, Voyager navigated around some mountains and whatnot, but flew 26,366 statute miles passing directly over the equator twice – the circumference of the earth is 24,901 miles; (http://www.fai.org/fai-record-file/?recordId=8391)
Edwards AFB, CA (USA) – Edwards AFB, CA (USA) : Looks like Voyager was in control of the Military Industrial Complex from beginning to end. No chance of deception there.
one phenomenon we see that points to a spherical planetary system is eclipses. if there is one thing I know about god is that he does not intend to deceive us. Why would we see this phenomenon in a predictable fashion when it would have to be manipulated by gods hand to produce it and that it would be visible in only a limited band? The planetary model explains this in a reasonable way. When I consider the heavens, the work of your fingers… what is man that You are mindful of him.
Times and Seasons – Its a celestial clock/calendar. The Great Light to rule the Day, the Lesser light to rule the Night. Most of the Hebrew Calendar was based on Moon Cycles. The Stars (the Mazzaroth) tell the Gospel Story. And all within the Firmament not outside the Firmament.
There are many recorded eclipses where both sun and moon are visible above the horizon. What makes you so sure an eclipse is caused by what you have been told? How can you be certain that the the moon is even reflecting the light of the sun? Moonlight shares no similar property with sunlight. If the moon were reflecting the sunlight why do we not see the same spectrum of light from it? When you reflect light off a sphere the sphere wouldn’t glow evenly in the way we see the moon. There are many other inconsistency with the current theory of our moon, lunar waves, transiency, and on and on. I do not know the full nature of our moon but i do know that it is not what i have been told. The Bible says it gives its own light, so I will just stick with that.
Cris, That Voyager course illustration that you put up could just as easily be laid out on a flat earth map. I thought you were going to show something like circumnavigating the “globe” pole to pole, i.e., North to South. That would be useful info. East to West makes no difference globe or flat.
The book of Isaiah was written around 739 BC and chap. 40 vs 22 says It is He who sits above the circle of the earth……. Think what you will.
Circle, it says circle not sphere.
I was wondering when a flat earth article was going to show up on Steve Quayle’s site. Lo and behold it is a half hearted attempt to debunk the flat earth. Steve Quayle and Timothy Alberino are currently making discoveries of evidence of high technology that existed prior to the flood so the backward superstitions and pre-scientific civilizations argument is obsolete at best. They may have lost the technology after the flood but not their memory.(I tried to email Steve a few weeks ago about flat earth but my email came back as spam.) Your poor Bible interpretation argument is flawed also. If we take the Bible literally it means what it says. If you start using the symbolic, metaphorical, or backward superstition arguments you can make it say whatever you want. The sun and moon stopped at Joshua’s command. The sun went 10 degrees backward as a sign for Hezekiah. To say the earth did the stopping or did the spinning backward is attempting to make scripture say something it does not. When Christ returns every eye shall see him. That is impossible on a globe. Daniel had a vision of a tree seen from the ends of the earth. This is impossible on a globe. Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world from the vantage point of a high mountain. This is impossible on a globe. Job 26 mentions bounds that encompass the waters. Job 38 mentions the foundation of the earth and its cornerstone. Oh, and how fashionable it has become to reference the Book of Enoch. Enoch was taken out beyond the firmament and was shown the foundation and the cornerstone. The Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries found in Enoch says the sun and moon are the same size. If you think you can use Enoch as proof for fallen angels and nephilim but not for the reality of the creation you are biased at best. Someone stated above that God does not deceive. If that is the case why do we find in Genesis 1 that the sun and moon were made on the fourth day and placed inside the firmament? Your beloved heliocentric model says the earth came out of the sun. That is not scripture. Did Eratosthenes get his spherical earth “revelation” from God? We certainly don’t find it in scripture. As a matter of fact, it is impossible to come up with a valid heliocentric argument using scripture. You can find nothing in scripture for your heliocentric model, that’s why you don’t use the Bible to prove it. You can’t. You can, however, find many scriptures that support the flat earth model. Either the Word of God is true or the heliocentric model is true. Both cannot be true.
Well Said!
So many great points, and I’m so glad to see you mentioning the Book of Enoch too! I was actually so puzzled by this very thing, that I made a video about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxBw9ooPS3I
It’s really odd to me, because my very FIRST exposure to “crazy Christian conspiracy theory” was about six years ago now, when I started googling stuff on the End Times, and somehow came across a video of this weird preacher man talking about “Nephilim stargates”, and this “Book of Enoch” and how it was actually quoted from in the book of Jude, etc., and I could hardly believe what I was hearing, so I set out to get to the bottom of it, and after tons of research, and prayer, I eventually had to conclude that yes, Jude certainly WAS referencing something that was not included in the “canon”, and that yes indeed, the “Sethite” theory made no sense at all, and that when you really took a look at it, the Book of Enoch didn’t teach Gnostic doctrines as many claimed, but was all about JUDGEMENT (which makes sense, because that is the same contextual theme present when being referenced in places like Jude, or Peter, etc.) But it turns out that “weirdo preacher” was Tom Horn, and I now very much understand what he was talking about with “Nephilim stargates” and so much else, and yet…
What does the Book of Enoch say about the Earth…? How do we continually point to the things it has to say about the “Watchers” and so on, and then completely disregard the many chapters which describe a Cosmology that is wholly inconsistent with the Copernican model? How can you have it both ways….?
There has been no supporting evidence of superior technology before the flood. However the technology that is to be manifest which comes from minds of the angels who got the knowledge from God before some of them left their first estate, through Sorcery ,( To the prophecy – He will deceive the whole world through Sorcery)by that their knowledge of technology became mingled with sorcery thus corrupting & it is this that is being imparted to man to the Prophecy of the second Beast rising from the Earth ,by the manifestation of that Knowledge(Corrupted through the Sorcery) today through America, so raised in Pride by this corruption to end up discounting even in the existence of God through the leavens of Science- Evolution, warned against by St. Pope Pius X in his Encyclical against Modernism & its danger to faith by specifically stating ‘Evolution’ as the principal behind modernists. . Technology came from God, but Sorcery out of Sin, is to say that it is the belief that defines a mans worth & when that belief becomes false so is his worth irrespective of the Intellectualism (which today is become his problem) for the angels that left their first estate were highly intelligent themselves but of their sorcery that influenced sodom extended unto this day even more(the warning of Jesus – Remember Lots wife, not even to sodom but unto its very Complacency), is stated of the manner ” just as the angels that left their first estate, so are the men of sodom chained in darkness reserved for condemnation.. So, research of ancient technology even that before the flood is but getting into the mind of satan (Ruler of this world)unto its knowledge with Sorcery as its fringe benefit, even as Technology is made the bait.
Heaven is not defined by Intelligence or Democracy but by HIS WILL-The Messiah, himself the Lord from heaven.
Actually there is supporting evidence of superior technology. The Giza pyramids and megaliths all over the flat earth are evidence. We can’t build these things nor move the blocks required with our current technology. Our technology does not come close to what is necessary to achieve the precision in the building of these great structures. What did they know that we don’t? They obviously knew the earth is stationary and flat. It is also a given that the fallen angels gave them the technology. They taught the pre-flood people all sorts of things. Maybe they gave the people the secret that keeps the sun and moon aloft as they circle around the earth. They did have superior technology. Not only were they technologically superior they were intellectually superior as well, they were not knuckle dragging fools.
“(I tried to email Steve a few weeks ago about flat earth but my email came back as spam.)”
I as well, about many topics where I believe he is just plain wrong, based upon the evidence.
SQ’s site is filled with links to false information.
If anyone should be receptive to open public debate, it should be SQ.
It’s like he refuses to consider any evidence that contradicts his
present beliefs and thinking.
I’ve just about stopped visiting his site.
Kerux
Kerux, I am beginning to wonder how many of these people (I once trusted and respected) are really controlled opposition?
I look at the controlled opposition as essentially “pressure-relief valves” for the truth movement. They will take you down the path (because you are bound and determined anyway) and then at some point they will divert you. When I was in sales it was called the “Judo Technique.” You use the persons own momentum against them. And this takes us somewhere close to the truth but not quite the whole truth.
If the diversion does not work, then the blockade – the “wall” goes up, the ad hominem attacks. You know, “You are too stupid to breathe” rants. “I can’t be bothered by ridiculous tripe like this.” Etc., Etc., Etc.
Even if they didn’t come to the same conclusion, I could respect them if they at least looked at it seriously and showed me some respect. They just bring out old tired arguments that have been thoroughly addressed and either discredited or brought into question by those looking into this.
I am an educated person. I am a well-read person. I am a person of some prominence. And essentially they flip me the intellectual bird. And then I’m supposed to respect them and their unorthodox views?
What they are telling me is they do not respect the people to which they are “marketing” their “product.” This makes me wonder about the quality of their product??? When they put out their next book are they “Laughing all the way to the Bank” at us fools???
Are they protecting us? Or are they fleecing us?
Are they leading us down a path of truth? Or are they driving us down the path of diversion from the whole truth?
Their behavior is suspect.
I’m not ready to throw the “babies out with the bathwater” just yet. But, I am not running to the radio to listen to them or buying their latest book like I used to either. The way they have disrespected those simply asking questions have left a bad taste in my mouth.
I would recommend listening to this show with David Weiss & Patricia Steere where they address this issue:
“http://files.talknetwork(dotcom)/TSL/TSL-2015-11-16-1.mp3” (replace the (dotcom) with .com then copy and paste into browser window.)
Pressure Relief Valve gives excess pressure a place to go so that things like water heaters, boilers, etc. don’t explode.
Pressure Relief Valves in the Truth Movement are there to keep a lid on the Full Truth. Without these “Valves” the Truth might Blow the Lid Off the WHOLE Thing!
Spock said: “Captain, you’re getting dangerously close to the planet killer!”
Relief valves in the spinning spherical earth debate,
just like Trump is in the political scene.
There is no political solution, we are way past that point.
So, like Perot was for me back in ’92, the last time I voted, Trump is for those still deceived into believing
their vote matters and Trump is going to change what matters most, the treason that has taken place in the US. Not going to happen.
I find the more a person watches Talmudvision and Hollywood movies, the more their perception of reality is deficient. They see and hear it on Talmudvision, so it must be the Reality.
Bring up an alternative perspective differing from their TV programming derived perception, and you, as they have been taught to label you, are a “conspiracy theorist.” GWB said; “Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories ….” Why of course not, for if we did, GWB would be hanging from a lamppost, just like his father said. GWB also said: “You are either with us or against us.” That is false as there is an alternative perspective, one of Neutrality, like the Swiss have been for decades, and have thus avoided war, so the Elite can have a safe haven for their stolen booty.
I have listened to that show and many many others.
Way to much evidence for me to ignore.
Like you, I graduated with one of their vaunted degrees, am self-educated, erudite, traveled, lived and worked in several foreign countries, successful in my own right in business, and yet I’m considered a nut by those with views that don’t hold up under scrutiny?
I care not what they think of me. I can and do think for myself and they and their views come up lacking.
Agreed about Trump. In fact the whole thing is for our “entertainment,” essentially “Political Theater.” The next president has already been chosen (as Patrick Henry said, “…, we have no election.) by the REAL “Powers that Be.” That is if there will be a new president (I personally would not be shocked if Barry doesn’t leave office.)
There is a lesson there for the Flat Earthers, Many leaders of the Truth Movement are not in it for Truth, they are also about ENTERTAINING us. They keep us busy, entertained – We seek truth, They seek an opportunity to profit.
I have absolutely NO problem with people profiting from the work of their hands. But, I want them to be REAL. In this world seeking truth is a process of sifting, weeding, cutting through centuries of thorns and thistles that have been sown by the enemy and have roots that are deep and wide. The wheat and the tares are hard to distinguish at first, but with time it can be done. So, likewise, we must be willing to let go of old paradigms when presented with new information.
Daniel 12:4 (NKJV)
4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
Daniel 12:9-10 (NKJV)
9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
According to Daniel there is revelation that is sealed until the “time of the end.” I believe the Final Generation will see and understand things that former generations missed, not through any fault of their own, the revelation was SEALED for a particular generation for a particular epoch. Therefore, those seeking truth must be willing to let go of paradigms that they’ve held onto for all their lives, for generations.
I’m not talking about reconsidering Jesus, He is our Cornerstone! He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. On Christ the Solid Rock I stand, ALL other ground is sinking sand. People love their globe more than Christ. The sinking sand of the globe is falling apart. The “Ball” (lie) could only hold together so long (like a sand castle) it eventually collapses.
Matthew 13:14-17 (NKJV)
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’
16 “But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
I was just thinking:
If – “You shall know the Truth and The Truth shall Set you Free.”
Then – Are those “Spoon-Feeding” us just a little more Truth (but No More) just Giving us a Little Longer Leash?????
We don’t hear this saying anymore, do we?
I used to hear it quite a bit when younger. No more.
“I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”
Express an opinion that differs from Group Think, and you’re a kook or worse,
an “Evil Nazi.” For example, an 87 year old German lady was just sent to jail for 10 months because she doesn’t buy the Official Narrative re: the holocaust and dared, (can you imagine?) express her opinion.
to most, including and especially judeo-christians, (an oxymoron) it’s only selective truth that we can examine.
Some truth is off limits.
JAH, in response to your post on the 23rd you posted this:
16 “But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
My question to you is do you think we are the generation being allowed by God the Father to ‘see’ and ‘hear’ things? This is what the passage you quoted says but are we the generation that this is written for, in your opinion? I was thinking this very thing the other day and now you post a verse about exactly that.
I’m a relatively new Christian (<2 years) and live in a very small rural area so 98% of my growth has been spirit-led through the internet (thank Him for the internet). I do attend a small Methodist church but they are not a very 'energetic' church. Sunday morning service only. However, I feel the Pastor is a man of God and the people are nice and I want to be obedient so I go.
I'm feeling led to ask you: can you share any suggestions for a couple good websites that you trust? I ask since in your comments here, you seem to have a really good grasp of scripture and seem well-grounded. thank you and God Bless!
Diana, I just wanted to acknowledge your post and your question. I want to seek the Lord as to how I should respond. I sense the Lord is performing a deep work in your life and I would like to answer you in a way that will help, not hurt what He is doing.
Philippians 1:2-6 (NKJV)
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,
4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy,
5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now,
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Hebrews 10:35-39 (NKJV)
35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 “For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
Diana – I think it is POSSIBLE that we are that generation who will experience the fullness of the opening of the revelation that was sealed in Daniel 12. But, we do need to be careful that we don’t fall into the same trap that many in the past and many of those we are currently debating have fallen into. They think they have arrived (at the truth) and therefore it is unnecessary to look any further. They assume the “Strong Delusion” of the Endtimes (2 Thes 2:11) is something yet to come. Where I’m beginning to believe it started 500+ years ago and we have been born and raised in it.
I have a friend who is a Pastor that I’ve known for 35 years, he always asks, “Are you teachable?” To be teachable requires humility. Arrogance is an “unteachable” spirit. Romans 12:3 (NKJV) “For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.”
We are not to think more highly of ourselves or less of ourselves, but rather, soberly of ourselves.
And 2 Peter 1:10 (NKJV) “brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;”
So why do I believe we might be that generation? What sets this time apart from other “times of trouble” in recent history?
First, I believe the existence of the Nation of Israel is a sign (Matthew 24:32.) I believe (whether good or bad is another discussion) its Rebirth is Prophetic.
Secondly, I believe the bioengineering and geo-engineering that is taking place is probably already irreversible. We now have genetically modified food, viruses, bacteria, animals and I suspect humans if not already here, are on the way. The water we drink and the air we breathe are intentionally being contaminated. The very fabric of our world is being modified from what God originally created. And the natural order of relationships has run amok. Men, women, children and animals all departing from God’s natural order.
Matthew 24:22 (NKJV) “…unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.”
I believe we are that generation because if things are allowed to go on as is, there will be nothing left uncorrupted of God’s creation. We are approaching (if not already there) the circumstances prior to the flood. Noah was found “perfect in his generations” (a genetic statement – his DNA was not corrupted) and he found “grace in the eyes of the Lord.”
A good book to read (if you can find it) “Advancing the Watch” by Kirk Wesselink. For me it really helped to open my eyes concerning endtimes. I’m not saying it has “all the answers.” It helped change the way I look at this stuff.
I’ll post more in the future, God Bless.
JAH: Thank you for your very thoughtful and thought provoking replies. They are truly appreciated. I find myself very much alone with my thoughts as far as human interaction goes and it’s kinda lonely sometimes not to have another person to talk to that doesn’t think I’m crazy. My eldest sister is a Christian and will listen but can’t accept that there was anything amiss with 911 much less flat earth (“do you mean to tell me that Neil Armstrong is a liar?”), etc, etc. She finally did see chemtrails last year so at least I can remind her that she used to think I was nuts about that in hopes she might make the step to another ‘conspiracy truth’. Thus far, not so much. So anyway, thank you for taking the time to share your information!
I agree with pretty much all your conclusions about where we are at now with the genetic engineering. I think it was Steve Quayle where I was first introduced to the concept that Noah was genetically clean and how that correlated to what is being done now (“as in the days of Noah”), and when I heard it, it really resonated as truth. The best way to describe it was that I felt at peace with that information as it seemed to tie up lots of loose ends. Same with flat earth.
Quoting scripture isn’t my strong suit at this point in time, but one non-biblical quote that I find helpful is “if it doesn’t make sense, it isn’t true” (Judge Judy). Since everything God does makes absolute sense (and sense in multiple layers as I’m finding out) I figure this is an easy, quick yardstick to use and is not un-biblical and if applied honestly, hasn’t failed yet. The truth does make sense. The matrix of the world around does not and I hear that phrase from people over and over: “it’s just crazy and it doesn’t make sense”. But, another way to look at that statement: IF it’s true that the enemy is currently leading ‘the world’ as it is written that he is, then everything that is happening now does make sense. Of course it makes sense that everything in the construct around us is based on lies because the father of lies is at the head. Of course death is everywhere in wars, murders, abortions, disease, suicides, etc., because the murderer( as Jesus proclaimed him to be) is leading the charge right now. Nothing that is happening makes sense UNLESS the head of the operation so to speak is acknowledged! This is what I struggle with in my interactions with the few Christians in my life: they know that the enemy is allowed to be in charge right now and yet will not take that knowledge out to it’s natural conclusion in regards to what is going on around us. My sister likes to rail against ISIS and it used to be al qaeda (sic) and also the gays or whatever enemy du jour the media is serving up currently and I cannot get her to move to ‘the big picture’ and drop all these distractions! Then I wonder how if the Christians who have the truth in front of them aren’t able to see clearly how on earth does anyone else have a chance? But then when I think that or pray about it the verse about ‘what can separate us from the love of God’ comes into my head and there is comfort in that.
But then why do you think some people (I guess like us?) have eyes to see what is unfolding (or at least are willing to LOOK), Christians and non-Christians both? Some just don’t seem to be able to even when they should, based on the fact that they follow the Bible which tells them all of this? Why are some able to break their conditioning and others seemingly can’t?
I always used to think people really ‘knew’ the truth deep down and were afraid of it just as I always thought everyone deep down knew there was God and if they weren’t living right they were running from Him in their hearts, as I was for so many years. It’s starting to register that this is not necessarily true. Some people don’t apparently feel like they are running from God and people also seem to be truly mind controlled and blinded to what is unfolding around them!
This is rambling on so please forgive me if I didn’t address your comments adequately. Just a stream of thoughts on my end.
It’s so nice to be able to read your comments and the comments of others here as I don’t feel like some freaky weirdo here. My whole life ever since I was a little girl there has been this sense that there was way more going on than meets the eye and I now believe it’s a blessing to be given the eyes to see the truth revealed but I still wish I knew why and what I’m to do with it. Kinda feel like Jeremiah in that I seem to always be the messenger with the scary info and who wants to be around someone like that? So, silence is my almost constant companion which is not always a bad thing, right? Although the Lord now reminds me that my eldest daughter and her friend were willing to look at this flat earth stuff and see it for what it is and that’s a real positive. Thank you, Father, for that.
My other sister is also a Christian but tells me she doesn’t like to look at such things even though she knows it’s out there and just keeps her eyes on Jesus, which is probably the only thing that makes sense to do anyway. Still, I feel drawn to these conspiracy topics which begs the question are these things distractions for me from what’s important and is this sister correct to acknowledge what is out there but not focus on it at all?
Lots of questions and free floating ideas so feel free to jump in anywhere if you are inclined to jump in at all, ha!
Diana, A while back I read a book by James Perloff called “Truth is a Lonely Warrior,” I thought that title (though not a book about scripture) succinctly describes the journey we embark on when we decide to pursue truth wherever it leads.
There really is a “flock” mentality built into us as humans, you know, “Safety in numbers,” “The majority can’t ALL be wrong,” etc.. Everyone knows if you’re in the center of the flock you are relatively safe. If you’re on the outer edge of the flock now it gets a little “dicey.” If you’re separated from the flock…look out!
I am not criticizing those with the flock mentality, it really is for our safety. Unfortunately, it too can be used by the enemy to control us, to keep us in bondage and to keep us from all God has for us. So, the challenge is always to seek everything God has for us without abandoning the things God has put in place for our safety. Tough balance? Not for God – Matthew 6:33 (NKJV) “But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.”
That is why I mentioned 2 Peter 1:10 in a previous post. We all have to find our calling. And as we seek God as to our calling, He is developing our character –
2 Peter 1:1-12 (NKJV)
1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
12 For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth.
So we pursue truth AND we endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit… Ephesians 4:1-3 (NKJV) “I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.” (read the whole chapter and see what God speaks to you.)
So, I believe truths like flat earth are very important. But, I don’t ever want to lose sight of what is MOST important – Jesus and what He has done for me! So like Mary, I ponder these things in my heart (Luke 2:19, 51.)
I believe God is preparing individuals for a time SOON to come, but it is not yet. That is why people have a hard time even entertaining these ideas right now. But it wasn’t long ago I was blind and deaf, but now I’m beginning to see and hear. I bet its the same for you.
In order to get people to think it is always best to ask questions rather then telling them. Whoever is asking the question is in control. So, even when someone asks you a question, it is good to respond with a question of your own. Why? If you tell them they won’t believe you, but, if they “tell” themselves, come to their own conclusion, that they will believe. Kind of like “leading a horse to water.”
And don’t be discouraged if it still falls flat. People have a way of following “trends” subconsciously. They can see that if they “go down this road” it may upset their comfortable little world. Well as scripture says, 1 Corinthians 14:38 (NKJV) “But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.” You are looking for those who do not want to be ignorant. And most importantly, Diana, you are not called to be ignorant.
1 Corinthians 15:57-58 (NKJV) “But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.”
If you want to contact me I can be reached at flattruthlogos@gmail(dotcom)
I also used to be a big fan of SQ. I still stumble on his site now and again however since I have found the flat earth there has seemed to be something missing. I suspect it is just blindness as I see in so many Christians. I have even heard him quote the definition of Ignorance yet he wont look outside of his own box. Rob Skiba appears to be one of the few who remains open to the truth and is willing to reevaluate everything. Many good Christians are just blind to the law, flat earth, the rapture, true Israel etc. I don’t think most of the misdirection is intentional on their part however many are actually wolfs.
@JAH
Please read the following bible verses then tell me if you consider yourself a Gentile.
Romans 2:28–3:4 (ESV)
28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
3 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written,
“That you may be justified in your words,
and prevail when you are judged.”
Matthew 18:15–17 (ESV)
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Ephesians 2:11–16 (ESV)
11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
Galatians 3:26–29 (ESV)
26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
Romans 11:13–26 (ESV)
13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Galatians 6:12–16 (ESV)
12 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Ephesians 3:6 (ESV)
6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Romans 9:6–13 (ESV)
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Romans 9:25–28 (ESV)
25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’ ”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”
27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.”
Matthew 15:21–28 (ESV)
21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.
Speaking about the millennial reign we find this:
Ezekiel 47:21–23 (ESV)
21 “So you shall divide this land among you according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the sojourners who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the sojourner resides, there you shall assign him his inheritance, declares the Lord GOD.
I don’t know about you but for me and my house we will call ourselves Israel, children of God, Abraham’s seed, Heirs according Christ.
The scriptures tell us God will do the gathering of Israel I don’t see this prophecy fulfilled yet at least not as it refers to the Northern kingdom of Israel.
Your Brother in Christ,
Joshua
Joshua, Good to hear from you again. This spot has become a nice little gathering place to meet people of like faith. Your posts have added to my life and faith.
I would say that when I gave my life to Jesus my heart was circumcised. Outwardly I may be of Gentile heritage (although I personally do not believe anybody really knows what their “fleshly” heritage is after millennia of “mixing,” but it is just my opinion) but the only thing that matters is I am Israel inwardly because of what Jesus has done for me on the cross.
You notice that I say it is POSSIBLE that we are that generation. I too believe there are things that must be fulfilled. But, I know how fast things can be fulfilled when God is ready to move.
One of the seminal events for me was Sept. 11, 2001, I saw the world dramatically change in the space of a couple of hours. When I took it to the Lord, He gave me an illustration:
It is like the Guiness Book of World Records for Dominoes. Literally months are spent “Setting the Table,” but once the table is set and the first domino falls it is over in a couple of minutes.
I believe God is “Setting the Table” right now, the dominoes in His hand are the prophesies to be fulfilled. When it is time, these things can come to pass very rapidly.
For most of my life in Christ, I had a “Prophetic Calendar” and checked off events, sometimes I got it right, sometimes not. I don’t do that as much anymore. I may be right or I may be wrong but I believe that the existence of the Nation of Israel is very important prophetically. I do not mean this in a “Zionist” way, in fact probably the opposite.
Whenever someone gets in the “Israel Do or Die Mode,” I remind them that Jesus said in John 5:43 (NKJV) “I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.”
I believe the Nation of Israel will play a major role in bringing the Man of Perdition to power.
I am not dogmatic about this because I recognize that with all the prophecies of Jesus first advent, there were few who actually recognized the events as they were occurring. Simeon, Anna, Shepherds, & Wise Men. Joseph & Mary understood God was doing something with this Child but really didn’t completely comprehend what was happening. (These all received revelation otherwise they would have missed it just like the learned “scholars”.) So, while I understand that these prophecies are important, I try to give God a “wide berth” so to speak, because I know my understanding always falls short and new revelation often can change the “interpretation.”
Take for example the New Jerusalem. It never made sense to me in the “spherical earth” paradigm. I just could not understand how this cube structure (some say the dimensions also could be a pyramidal structure) fit with the ball earth? It seemed out of order, not right. But on the Flat Earth model… well now it makes sense. I’m not saying I understand it completely, but we now have some possibilities. Before, I envisioned the globe with 1000 mile high pyramid (or something) sticking out of it (think the Jack-in-the Box restaurant logo.)
So anyway there’s a little “stream of consciousness” for you (I’m definitely a brain storming kind of guy.) You’ve given me some things to ponder, hopefully I’ve done the same. Until we are gathered together by God’s Holy Angels I’m glad we can gather together here. Sometimes it is hard to find people in my neck of the woods with which to have these conversations.
Joshua,
Hello and we’re agreed that since flat earth something seems to be missing from lots of websites that I frequented. I’ve even gotten bored with the Caravan to Midnight show with John B. Wells which seemed like an impossibility. Never say never, right?
Also am very thankful for Rob Skiba. What a brave man! I hope he can keep going.
Ditto JAH, as in my response to you, it is so nice to interact with like minded folks!
“First, I believe the existence of the Nation of Israel is a sign (Matthew 24:32 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] .) I believe (whether good or bad is another discussion) its Rebirth is Prophetic.”
May I suggest you re-study your assumption stated above? Israel was not jewish in any way shape or form. Just like the spinning spherical earth – this deception, that the Israelites were jews, (and that Christ was a jew) has misguided all of us who believed that lie for decades. The jews have zero Scriptural claim to Palestine.
There are two words that do not belong in an English translation of Scripture: jew and Gentile. In almost all cases, jew should be translated Judaean, or sometimes Judah, but not jew. The jews want us to believe they are Judah. They are not. They derive/descend from Esau/Edom, not Jacob/Israel. Even jews admit this if you look for it. Do the research.
Second, Gentile should be translated “nations,” as in Israelite nations. (again, not jews).
Paul was sent to all the dispersed Israelite nations, not to the jews.
Many Israelites left Egypt before the Exodus. Therefore, many Israelites did not receive the Law given to Moses, as they weren’t present at Sinai.
If you don’t understand these facts, you are going to be confused about the entirety of Scripture and, I might add, current events.
keruxreplies.wordpress.com for more info.
Never say never again! I have literally taken this saying as well as Christ instructions about oaths to heart. Some people (including wife) have even gotten mad at me because they have asked me to “promise” and i will not because I have come to recognize that all I know and believe is in Gods hands and nothing is in my control. He reveals to whom he chooses and my promise means nothing.So when I’m asked these days I just smile and say “if its Gods will” Everything,Everything is possible with God. He will raise up the seed of Abraham from a stone If that is what is needed to fulfill is promises or his desires. If yo believe God than you are Israel past, present or future.
Cris, partially into your work at one time.
After several inconsistencies and fluff, no more
For you the earth can’t be flat, it would render
most of your recent work meaningless. Your handlers
can’t have that, have to keep the con going. Your arguments a
are weak to say the least, and quoting the work of a never was.
really speaks for itself. Surprised you didn’t go to the Neil Tyson Blowhard work.
Say Hi to Steve for me. You AGENTS suck.
Politeness and political correctness are for the Synagogue of Satan at this point in time.
PHIL; Can you all see the moon and the sun Are they flat? Of course the earth is likewise a sphere . just as the moon and sun are so.
The word of God is spiritual in context and as such is the understanding given. “The cornerstone of the earth” can also be understood as it’s Foundation. Christ is also the “corner stone” of the Church. He is also the Rock of our salvation. do you take that literally that Christ is a literal rock?
You can’t tell by looking at them whether they are Solar & Lunar “Disks” (i.e. “Flat”) or “Spheres.” The distances involved are too great to discern depth of this nature. If you are able to discern depth and declare these to be spheres then they are much closer and therefore much smaller then we are told. (either way problematic.) We see a “sphere” because we are told its a sphere and expect to see a sphere.
Furthermore, even if you are right and the sun and moon are spheres (which is possible), why would that make the earth a sphere “Of course”?
jaz
I did not realize there were really those who believe the world is flat. My point for those who believe the bible is that all of us could/should have known the world was a sphere. That knowledge was available several hundred years before 190 bc. It appears to me that arguing this with flat-earthers is like arguing with any idealogue. Not possible.
Ditto for the Rounders. It is like a religion with them, they are lost without their sphere.
1 Timothy 6:20-21 (KJV)
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of SCIENCE falsely so called: which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
Romans 1 demonstrates the degradation of society when truth is suppressed (and all in the context of creation.) Beware when you place so called science over the Word of God. I’d love to be persuaded, but so far not seeing much from rounders.
you have made no point
jaz: I don’t understand why people think that just because the sun and moon are spheres the earth has to be one. The argument that the Bible is spiritual in context and thus should only be taken that way is weak. Did Jesus heal the sick? Well, not literally he just healed their spirits. Did Jesus raise the dead? No, not literally that is a spiritual application of Jesus bringing life to our dead spirits. Did Jesus die on the cross? Of course not, not in the literal sense. That is a spiritual application of how we should be dead to sin. Was Jesus resurrected from the dead on the third day? Again, another portion of scripture that only has a spiritual application. Do you see slippery slope of your logic? Do you see how I interpreted scripture using your logic? Of course I believe Jesus literally healed the sick, raised the dead, died on the cross and was raised on the third day. Heliocentrists will do anything to twist scripture in order to deny what it really says about the creation.
The phrase, Rock of our salvation is found only once in scripture: Ps. 95:1 tsoor, tsoor
From H6696; properly a cliff (or sharp rock, as compressed); generally a rock or boulder; figuratively a refuge; also an edge (as precipitous): – edge, X (mighty) God (one), rock, X sharp, stone, X strength, X strong. See also H1049. House of rock.
1 Cor 10:4 calls Christ our spiritual Rock. He is literally our spiritual Rock.
If the bible doesn’t mean what it says then who proclaimed Cris or anyone else for that mater the authority on its interpretation! lets all just believe whatever our hearts desire. I think i will worship God today in a big orgy…
You misunderstand me… The word of God is understood in the power of the Holy Spirit. I am not saying that all is a metaphor. To rightly divide the word of God is to know what belongs to the physical realm and what belongs to the spiritual… Of course Jesus died Physically but it has spiritual consequences for all men. The scriptures also contain a lot of imagery and symbolism which relates to the physical which can only be understood in the Light of the Holy Spirit as he gives understanding. The waters of the great flood retracted to the poles north and south in two frozen masses It did not retract west and east. If you know anything about the magnetic polar fields belonging to the sphere of the earth then you would understand why this was so.
I do misunderstand you, you need to focus.
But, you do understand there are flat disc magnets and they also have poles. So, it doesn’t require a sphere to have a magnetic field.
Question:
I’ve seen disk magnets, I’ve seen square and rectangle magnets, I’ve seen cylindrical magnets, I’ve seen refrigerator magnets, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a ball magnet.
I’m sure they probably exist, anything can be magnetized, but it would seem to me sphere magnets would be inherently unstable. Maybe that’s why I haven’t seen one. They serve no practical purpose.
Any thoughts on this? What are the implications for the spherical earth?
There is only one type of magnet know to exist naturally and it is not round.
Sorry about the name thing, I’m really not ” ‘ve s says”
Is that why rounders are always afraid “pole reversals,” the instability of a magnetic field on a spherical earth would be perilous.
Seems to go counter the scriptural language concerning the earth, fixed, firm, cannot be moved, etc.
I am not talking about a magnet. I am talking about the magnetic field of the poles!
Hello…McFly…In order to have a magnetic field something has to be magnetic.
I still contend that a sphere would have an inherently unstable magnetic field as opposed to a disk shaped flat earth which would be quite stable. But, I’m open to discussion and am willing to defer to the judgment of someone with superior understanding of such matters.
There is rightly dividing the Word and then there is either avoiding scripture or relegating it to metaphor if it does not line up with your world view or the prevailing world view. It is not a light thing to come out from the herd and adopt the FE world view. The physical evidence is there. The enclosed stationary FE world view is supported by scripture 100%. There is no honest way to get around it. Let God be true and every man a liar. Believe me, I liked the globe and the endless universe, but I found out that is all delusion. It does not matter what kind of false evidence is produced whether it be images or video, it is all deception. Real tangible evidence (not impossible mathematics) supports the enclosed stationary FE, and the Bible supports it. You cannot rightly divide the Word of God and come up with the heliocentric model. You just can’t do it. I don’t care how many letters come after your name. Since the Bible supports only a enclosed stationary FE the scholars of our day say that God just let the writers to continue to believe “a lie” since it was pre-scientific times and they just would not understand the heliocentric model. Is that the best they can do? Let God be true and every man a liar, even the scholars. I will trust the Bible before I trust any man or man made agency.
Good word Donald!
My last post has been “awaiting moderation” for the past 5 hours. No explanation why. Nothing outrageous in what I said. Just calling it the way I see it.
Fight the Good Fight Truth Seekers
We do not know if the sun and moon are spheres when viewed on can only be certain they see a 2D circle.
“The word of God is spiritual in context and as such is the understanding given.”
The (entire) word of Yahweh is “spiritual in context?”
Where did you come up with such nonsense?
The earth could be flat, the earth could be a ball, who cares? Not me. I’m meeting my bridegroom, that’s all.
Good for you, Diana Ward!
Our Bridegroom tells us, “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.”
I believe truth sets us free and I believe all deception is to put us in bondage. The truth about this world is not insignificant. Most of the lies steering society start with the “globe.” Personally I’ll go with Genesis 1 without the apologist’s gymnastics.
1 Timothy 6:20-21 (KJV)
“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. “
JAH makes a great point. We could say the same kinds of things about Evolution too, couldn’t we?
“Who cares how old the universe is, if in the end I’m just waiting to see my Lord!”
And true, maybe for some people, believing in an “Evolutionary Creation” isn’t significant enough to hinder them from knowing their Creator. I do believe God’s grace is big enough to overcome something like that.
But at the same time, there is a very real reason that the Enemy has put so much effort into fooling the ENTIRE WORLD into believing that we all evolved out of nothing, AND that because of Evolution, we should basically assume that there are lots of other races of intelligent beings, somewhere out there, just waiting to come along and “help us in our evolutionary journey”…..
Part and parcel to the agenda of “exploring space”, is the agenda of finding “alien life”. This has been the case since the first rocket launches, and isn’t it amazing that we see this only INCREASING lately, both from institutions such as NASA, and the RCC…??? Is this coincidence…?
Quite literally the bible describes the earth as flat, unmovable, with the sun, moon and stars rotating around inside an enclosed dome. A time will come when you will need to trust in the word of God despite what you see with your eyes and observe with your scenes. Fortunately this is not that case. given no preconceived notion of a round earth our senses and observations would lead us to believe just as the bible declares. if you cant trust the bible when it is in line with your senses and observations I fear for you when the great deception comes because you will need to stand on Gods word without question. Good luck to all the willfully blind rounders,you will need it.
Hosea 4:6
1 Timothy 6:20–21
You can trust your Science and monkey men, I will trust my God and his word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nxIxj__rCw
100% Proof the earth is millions of years old!!!
Scientist
“we found some million year old dinosaur bones over there”
Skeptic
“how do you know they are a million years old”?
Scientist
“because we found them in that million year old strata over there”
Skeptic
“how do you know the strata is a million years old”?
Scientist
“Because we found million year old dinosaur bones in it”
100% Proof the earth revolves around the sun!!!
Scientist
“We have determined the sun is 96 million miles away”
Crazy literal Bible thumper
“how did you figure that out”
Scientist
“Back in the 1500s We took the angle to the sun and the distance to the moon in order to calculate the triangulation.”
Crazy literal Bible thumper
“Well how do you know the distance to the moon?”
Scientist
” We took the angle to the moon and the distance to the sun in order to do our triangulation”
Crazy literal Bible thumper
“Did you come from a Monkey?”
Scientist
“Of course”
What’s the deal with Chis Putnam?
– He puts out the equivalent of an Elementary School book report.
– He responds to a few bloggers with the same Elementary School determination.
– He realizes he’s in way over his head (i.e., Rob Skiba actually has put some time in on researching this subject.)
– He declares victory and goes home with his toys.
If you really want to understand this issue check out Rob Skiba’s Site:
http://www.testingtheglobe.com/
Or watch Flat Earth Clues Series:
http://enclosedworld.com/
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
What’s the deal with Chis Putnam?
– He puts out the equivalent of an Elementary School book report.
– He responds to a few bloggers with the same Elementary School determination.
– He realizes he’s in way over his head (i.e., Rob Skiba actually has put some time in on researching this subject.)
– He declares victory and goes home with his toys.
If you really want to understand this issue check out Rob Skiba’s Site testingtheglobe dot com
Or watch Mark Sargents Flat Earth Clues Series at enclosedworld dot com
Amen!
I too had a comment yesterday which somehow got sucked into the vortex of “awaiting moderation”. Curious, since all the other comments got posted right away, seemingly without any moderation….
All I was trying to do was post a link to a video I had made regarding Flat Earth and the Book of Enoch, since someone else also commented about how Enoch VERY much describes the Flat, enclosed Earth, with a great amount of detail….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxBw9ooPS3I
I also agree that it is incredibly disappointing to see Cris taking such caustic swipes at a fellow researcher like Rob, after putting in what seems like, what, half an afternoon’s worth of “research” into this post? How long have you known Skiba, how many years have you guys been putting out lots of parallel material, and yet you have so little regard for him, that even though he’s spent months digging into something and still finding it worthy of further investigation, you think so much of his intellect that you google a few “globe earth proofs” and throw this out there…?
Why is someone like Rob such an easy target to pick on, and yet I don’t hear anyone making such remarks our beloved Chuck Missler, even though he has openly spoken of the possibility of not only a Flat Earth, but a flat universe as well: http://khouse.org/articles/2015/1247
Hyperlinks always result in moderation. That’s how virus’ spread.
Hyperlinks always result in moderation. That’s how virus spread.
THE GLOBE The Last Weapon Science Has Against God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVRlxaKbMkk
Please explain aurora borealis…..
Color light on the top of a dome, angels dancing i don’t know but whatever it is it just looks like light coming through a dome to me. weather flat or round the earth still has a magnetic north so i don’t see why the same ionization couldn’t happen on a flat earth.
What about the southern lights?
Can’t answer all the questions. Doesn’t mean someone does not have an answer though. I’m on a journey to find answers to these kind of questions. Someone once said, “The only stupid question is the one not asked.” Why are people telling us to stop asking these questions? Why do they ridicule us for these questions? Why are they threatened by these questions?
But, the “globe” has anomalies too, here’s one for you to think about:
If the earth rotates once in 24 hours (a day) and say on March 21, Noon is Daylight and Midnight is Night. Why is it that on September 21 (6 months later on the opposite side of the sun) Noon is not Dark and Midnight is not Light?
You might have to lay this model out on a big table with some plates or something to see it, but, there is something wrong with the heliocentric model. It’s so ingrained in us that we don’t see these anomalies.
Maybe, by me bringing it up, somebody will give a verifiable answer.
Jeffrey Grupp has an excellent (not short) video demonstrating how some of these atmospheric phenomena work in the flat earth model
Video: “Zeteticism (Flat Earth) Vol 2: The Heavens, Part 1: The Dome Sky Ceiling & the Zetetic Eye”
“greensolipsist.com/science-and-philosophy/flat-earth-theory” will get you to his website which the following was taken from:
Zeteticism is the empirical study of the shape of the earth, relying on direct observation (empirical information), not theorization. The average person merely believes (without ever confirming with their own eyes) that Earth is a ball, and for some reason is convinced that not believing it’s a ball is the mark of insanity. But as the videos on this page show, direct/empirical observation supports Earth as flat, not a ball, and any simple direct observation overrides any theoretical (non-direct) information.
LISTEN UP EVERYBODY WHO IS ADVOCATING THE FLAT EARTH THEORY… WHY NOT TAKE A TRIP TO THE EDGE AN JUMP OFF!!!!!!!!!!
Silly Rabbit… There is an Ice Wall called Antarctica that runs around the whole earth, so we can’t.
So, I guess your stuck with us.
Or you could be like those in Acts chapter 7 that didn’t like what and Stephen had to say and stone us. Yea, that’s the ticket! Don’t investigate what we don’t understand…. JUST KILL THE MESSENGER!
Luke 9:54-56 (NKJV)
54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.
56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.
Yeh that is where santa clause lives on the Icy wall called Antartica.
First of all, Santa Clause is just a story we were told as children, kind of like the globe.
Secondly, even if you believe the story, Santa Clause lives at the North Pole which is in the Arctic not the Antarctic.
Hopefully, I haven’t ruined your day (I mean about Santa.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lchtwf5Fvhc
Thanks Joshua, That video answers a lot of the questions that have arisen here in an easy to understand way. Will be watching part 2 next.
Here are some photo shots of earth from space..http://www.planetary.org/multimedia/space-images/earth/all_gal_e1_1hr.html
Thanks looks like a sphere to me.
Come on Cris, you do understand you are looking at a 2 dimensional image (how do you tell if something is a sphere in two-dimensions?), and I emphasize IMAGE!
Oh, but, .GIF images are sacrosanct, and NASA Freemasons – their word is their bond.
It amazes me how with these images we are told what we should see. The powers-that-be can’t take a chance that we might “see” something other than the official story. I mean I’ve seen .gifs of cats wearing wigs playing various musical instruments – I wish it were true, that would be really cool. But, in the end I have to call B.S.. Sorry.
No I can use high school trigonometry and prove to myself that unless square circles actually exist the world is a sphere, conclusively, and anything you say arguing I am wrong is laughable. Take an algebra class.
Keep laughing Cris Putnam, you said, “Thanks looks like a sphere to me.” I pointed out that you can not tell from a two-dimensional image whether it is a sphere or not. You mentioned nothing of high school trigonometry or algebra. I will look forward to you proving the earth is a sphere, conclusively, using high school trig. That actually carries a little more weight then a .gif image. If nothing else you were able to stir up a little traffic on your little website – I’m happy for you. You might have this one wrong but you still have most stuff right (sorry, might not be a compliment coming from an uneducated ignoramus like me.)
OK Cris, here’s the deal. I have everyone of your books since Petrus Romanus in my Kindle. I own a Christian Bookstore and promote and sell your books. When people ask me what I know of the author, I tell them Cris Putnam is a great researcher, well worth the time to read his work.
If I’ve learned anything from Cris Putnam, Tom Horn, Steve Quayle, Rob Skiba and on and on, its that things are not always as they appear. You, Cris, unfortunately appear to be following your own writing in this matter,
“Our task is to save the phenomena. It doesn’t matter if our models are true, all that matters is that our models work mathematically.”
Putnam, Cris (2014-05-26). The Supernatural Worldview: Examining Paranormal, Psi, and the Apocalyptic (Kindle Locations 6570-6571). Defense Publishing. Kindle Edition.
When I read that I thought it was criticism of others, not describing your own philosophy, my mistake.
And that’s what bothers me, you say that YOU can PROVE the spherical earth with high school trig, but you never actually do it. You deemed this subject important enough to write an article with sarcastic attack on Skiba, but, you don’t think it is important enough to design and implement an experiment to prove your point. (And you have the nerve to tell me I need to take an algebra class… I haven’t seen any evidence that you are not the one in need of that algebra class.)
Rob Skiba actually experimented with one of his theories and proved himself wrong… and did a video demonstrating how he was wrong! What have you done lately besides taking cheap shots and “laughing at silly ignorant people.”
I can understand the theories. I’ve seen it on paper. I just can’t find it actually playing out in the real world. Where is the curvature of the earth actually factored-in? Architecture? Engineering? Surveying? Navigation?
I talked to a Corporate Pilot (who has flown internationally) and asked how the curvature of the earth is factored in to navigation. He didn’t even hesitate, he said, “We don’t, we navigate like it is a plane.” Forgive me for asking, but how is that possible? You fly 100 miles and the earth drops away over a mile.
This is what I find everywhere. The curvature in practical application is not a factor. If it is there, it should be a huge factor. So, I dare ask, “Is it because there is no curvature?”
Would it take much for me to believe the earth is a sphere again? Probably not. But, I’m not getting a whole lot to work with here. I would love to see a Flat Earth Skeptic (YOU) and a Globe Skeptic (SKIBA) get together, design an experiment, and bring us an answer. If we have been lied to our entire life we need to know.
“our very foundational physical constructs now appear myopic and insufficient.”
Putnam, Cris (2014-05-26). The Supernatural Worldview: Examining Paranormal, Psi, and the Apocalyptic (Kindle Location 64). Defense Publishing. Kindle Edition.
That’s what you wrote, now you are mocking those asking questions about the “physical constructs” we have been presented? I personally think you’re better than that. Hopefully, soon you will prove me right about your character.
NOTE: The quote from the forward to Cris’ Book “our very foundational physical constructs now appear myopic and insufficient.”
Putnam, Cris (2014-05-26). The Supernatural Worldview: Examining Paranormal, Psi, and the Apocalyptic (Kindle Location 64). Defense Publishing. Kindle Edition.
Should have been attributed to Dr. Chuck Missler in the Forward of Cris’ Book.
There I did it. I admitted a mistake. See how it is done Cris?
The earth is a sphere, I still have no rational reason to doubt that. I’m sorry you disagree.
Cris, now I can respect that you see things differently. I can’t respect mocking and laughing at people that are asking questions. I don’t expect you to acquiesce just because I have doubts about something, you don’t answer to me. But please, don’t assume people are ignorant because they come to different conclusions when looking at “evidence.”
We are living in the times of “Strong Delusion,” lied to on a daily basis on multiple levels to keep us in bondage. Why not the biggest lie of all – about where we live? The reality is, this is so big neither you or I can “prove” our point of view. Meanwhile I think we can agree sphere or flat, it is passing away and is not worthy of our trust – only Jesus is worthy of that!
Did he say Photo Shots or Photoshops? I would like to see this conclusive trig that proves the earth a globe. That statement in itself is laughable. You cannot prove something through math. Math can only show you that something is one of any number of possible answers. If two people give me money totaling 10 dollars dose that prove that each person gave me a five? Get a sextant, measure the angle and calculate the distance to the sun. The trigonometry will tell you that the sun is about 3200 miles away and about 32 miles in diameter. This is conclusive trig. I have provided 2 additional experiments that prove possible using trig and observation that the earth is stationary and not a globe. The only counter argument to the proof found from these experiments and the thousands of other experiments that show the earth to be stationary and flat, is to say that nothing is real and what is up is actually down. Yes the Theory of relativity. And yes it is just a theory to this day, as it has never been proven. For goodness sake The theory of relativity is the only argument found in science that provides a possible explanation disputing the 1000s of experiment showing the earth is fixed and flat and the theory of relativity itself could make no distinction as to the difference between the earth moving around the sun or the sun moving around the earth because it would be relative. It is admittedly against all observation found in experimentation but you could never prove it because it is relative… In other words believe what we say not what you see. Hear ill make it easy for you just do the trig in any picture of the angle of the sun’s rays shining through the clods then tell us what you find.
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).[1] The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts. Ignoramus is commonly used in the UK, Ireland, and the US as a term for someone who is willfully ignorant. Ignorance is distinguished from stupidity, although both can lead to “unwise” acts.
Rob Skiba is “Back in the Saddle” with a New Video! Go to Rob Skiba’s YouTube Channel to Watch,
“Rob Skiba is back in the saddle again – exposes NASA + FE testimonies”
JOSHUA EPHRAIM – are you able to post Rob’s video here? I haven’t figured out how.
I think it is important for people to hear Rob Skiba themselves and decide whether he is unreasonable in what he is saying. Chris Putnam going after Rob Skiba is what started this whole discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvjLrohTJ8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_nLmcEh3R0
Thanks Joshua Great Stuff
Egad! 136 comments! …In the space of a few days!
Who are all these people? Where did they come from? This is a nice quiet blog. What’s going on?
I know, it can be quite disconcerting when YHWH enters our comfortable little world and confronts us about what we actually believe.
It is now up to you to search out the matter. Does the deception (“the strong delusion”) go deeper then we ever imagined? Have we been sucked into it all our lives?
I know I was deceived, now I know the Bible IS more literal then I ever imagined and I give God ALL the Glory!
There are some videos posted above that will give you some background, it is worth the time to watch them… or just return to your comfort and go about your business like nothing happened.
If you want to pursue this issue further check out Rob Skiba’s Site testingtheglobe dot com
Or watch Mark Sargent’s Flat Earth Clues Series at enclosedworld dot com
Praise God! Jesus is LORD of ALL!
(JAH says:
09/05/2015 at 8:14 am
I know I was deceived, now I know the Bible IS more literal then I ever imagined and I give God ALL the Glory!)
AMEN!
(Praise God! Jesus is LORD of ALL!)
DOUBLE AMEN!!
No need to comment when there is no controversy. Obviously there is something to this Flat Earth thin for so many to get involved
This is a huge dose of reality on a Biblical level. This is none other than a divine revelation from The Lord. You either receive it or you do not. You either believe the Word of God is true or you do not. I always say that the Bible is not needed to prove the earth is stationary and flat, but it is in there and the Bible has been my anchor while researching this. The evidence itself is crying out to us. The very creation itself is proclaiming the truth. Open up your eyes and see it. thank you JAH and Joshua for keeping this thread alive.
And thank The Lord for revealing this truth!
Amen!
If you will humble yourself, seek and ask the Father to reveal knowledge of the truth in these matters, then it will be truth that you find.
My comments from 9-2 are still awaiting moderation, I didn’t say anything offensive only 9 facts about our Earth. Maybe just busy, Anyone else?
I had that happen the other day. I don’t think there is anyone actually moderating here. It appears to be automated. I pulled hyperlinks out of my post and then it went through with no problem (my original post is still awaiting moderation after more then 2 days.) So it must kick out based on certain criteria that still isn’t clear to me, seeing others have hyperlinks in their posts.
But, I have found the revelation that Bible is wholly true to be quite liberating. Despite the best efforts of the apologetic gate keepers and the scientism appeasers, I am FREE!
John 8:31-32 (NKJV)
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
I’ve walked with the LORD for 35 years and there were questions that I had filed away in the back of my mind, things I was trying to make sense. The first key to answering some of the questions was understanding the Nephilim and the corruption of God’s Creation. The second key is understanding we live on an enclosed flat earth, just like the Bible describes from beginning to end.
These two things are tied together, one the corruption of God’s creation at a genetic level, the other a corruption of how we view God’s creation. When we have an incorrect view of God’s creation we have an incorrect view of ourselves and God. (Read Romans 1:18-32)
We start to believe we can “build a tower (or rocket) to the heavens” in our own strength. God gets pushed further and further from our lives. And we start to sing “How Great We Art” instead of “How Great Thou Art.”
As someone once said, “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.”
My prayer is that those doubting this just set aside a few hours to seriously investigate it. There are very informative videos above.
Also, If you want to pursue this issue further check out Rob Skiba’s Site testingtheglobe dot com
Or watch Mark Sargent’s Flat Earth Clues Series at enclosedworld dot com
Praise God! Jesus is LORD of ALL!
I went through a similar progression and it seams like these things were revealed to many Christians around the same times . Understanding the Nephilim really brought a lot of things in the Bible together. Reconciling salvation through faith alone with Gods desire for obedience to the law then recognizing the flat earth has done the same. It is clear to me that over the past 10 years God has been poring out knowledge bit by bit. I cant wait to see what is next because it sure seams to be building to a climax.
Thanks for the insight. It looks like every comment that is awaiting moderation has a link in it. Maybe ill try to re post without the link.
Proverbs 18:13 (NKJV)
13 He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him.
Rob Skiba and Johnny Cirucci discuss FlatEarth
(view on Rob Skiba’s youtube channel)
Eratosthenes was a very bad scientist as he used his data to conform with his biased opinion that the Earth was a Sphere. He could have equally assumed the Earth was flat and his math would prove a much closer sun instead. His math and data neither prove a spherical Earth nor a flat Earth with a much closer sun but could equally be either.
I believe they call this fallacy affirming the consequent in logic.
Agreed Andrew. The Earth may be a sphere, but Eratosthenes certainly “proved” nothing. At best he is alleged to have proved that shadows fall differently in different places. His explanation “why?” required presuppositions that he had no way to confirm.
Furthermore, this proof is attributed to a guy that did his “experiment” some 2300 years ago? Is there anything left of his original work? Think Library of Alexandria? How do we know he didn’t publish another paper where he proved his theory wrong? Or was this “genius” a one hit wonder? As Wikipedia states concerning the burning of this library, it was an, “incalculable loss of ancient works,” and “a symbol of the irretrievable loss of public knowledge.” How did his work survive when other “treasures” were lost? Did it survive?
To me there is something bizarre about the way this guy’s name is tossed around…. Eratosthenes this, Eratosthenes that, Look at me I can say Eratosthenes … aren’t I intelligent… Eratosthenes. Eratosthenes. Eratosthenes. What does that mean? I don’t know…Eratosthenes …debate over.
I personally can’t buy the spinning sphere. Could I be convinced otherwise? Sure. But, so far all I’ve seen is a bunch of “ancient” B.S.., a poorly designed experiment that does little more than record observations. I’m still waiting for some field where the “curvature” is actually factored in reality. Navigation, Engineering, Surveying, Firing-Solutions all treat the earth as a plane. If the earth is a sphere the “Z” axis cannot be ignored! Unlike “Eratosthenes” 2300 years ago, I’m talking about today, what have the globalists shown me lately?
@JAH
I’m glad to hear you have got something out of my posts, Praise God! I’m also well read however, there is nothing in me that has lead me down this long twisted road of truth. I’m ignorant, selfish and blind if not for God leading me.
You are spot on i thing with regards to these fringe topics. I agree with you that the modern state of Israel has a part to play in prophecy however, the regathering of the 2 houses/12 tribes it is not.In that event God will do the gathering not airplanes and the U.N. In any event thanks for the encouraging words, I had been stepping back because i felt like my efforts were not going anywhere. So, now you have lead me.
Thanks
Joshua
@ Kerux
I never said Jews were Israel. Although Christ was of the Tribe of Judah and some who are Jews in religion and/or nationality are of the tribe of Judah. Modern day Israel is comprised of what you say as well as some who are of the tribe of Judah. You are spot on with your translation of the word Jew. You are missing a point on your translation of Gentile. You could better translate Gentile as “unbeliever”, “Heathen” or out of covenant with God. I may actually have blood lineage to one of the 12 tribes, so might half the world at this point in time. The point is Israel is and never was necessarily the blood line of Abraham. Look through the bible, it was always only those who believed God and out of love obeyed.
Romans 9:6–13 (ESV)Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) Read this again and tell me who is Israel
Look in Strong’s. Most times the word ethnos (peoples of the same tribe, nations) should be, given the context, nations, referring to Israelite nations, not Unbeliever or heathen. Sometimes yes, but most times “nations.” This is fact. Look it up.
No jews are of Judah. Jews descend from Esua, not Jacob. Look it up.
True Israel is and always was of the bloodline of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There is not a single example, when looked at in the original languages and with proper interpretation, of a non-Israelite being included in Yahweh’s Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel.
Give us one of your examples “Look through the bible, it was always only those who believed God and out of love obeyed” and I’ll show you that this is a wrong interpretation.
It is true that Nations is a fair translation for Gentile however, Israelite’s even considered themselves or their peers as Gentiles if they were out of covenant with God. Thus we are both correct. The word nations doesn’t give us the full meaning as they would have understood it. Just because a word has a simple translation doesn’t mean the translated word encompass the whole original meaning. Take the word Torah for example it is often translated as Law but our concept of the word Law only represents a portion of whet they meant when they said Torah.
Only some who call themselves Jews today are actual decedents of Esau. To paint such a broad brush is in error, despite all our research we don’t know for sure who is who anymore. We can speculate all day long however if it is not in the scripture it is just an educated guess.I understand why you believe this way and to some extent I agree but to say all who call themselves Jews today in nationality or religion are decedents of Esau is simply not true. The words that have been translated as “Jews” in our bibles are very poorly translated. Sometimes they are referring to the tribe of Judah, sometimes to the people of the region Judea and sometimes to the religious system of that day and area the Jews (religions system Scribes and Pharisees).
True Israel Never was strictly about bloodline. If it were then every believer today would have to actually be a physical decedent from Jacob (I don’t rule this out as a possibility God can do anything). As Christians are heirs of the covenant and promises to Abraham.
Below is some Biblical examples:
Paul tells us; Romans 9:6–8
Speaking of the End times We find this;
Ezekiel 47:21–23 (ESV)
Then again;
Ephesians 3:6
Galatians 3:25–29
Romans 11:13–26 (ESV)
Romans 2:28–3:4 (ESV)
Ephesians 2:11–16 (ESV)
Galatians 6:12–16 (ESV)
Abraham himself;
Genesis 12:2–3
How about Melchizedek;
Genesis 14:18–20
The Israelites left Egypt with a mixed multitude that became a part of Isreal.
Exodus 12:37–38
Later Joshua Circumcises the remnant of this mixed multitude.
Joshua 5:1–9
Moses was not only saved out of a Gentile nation, he married into one. He married Zipporah, daugher of Jethro, who was the priest of Midian. After the exodus, Jethro brings Moses’ family to him into the desert, and before he returns to his country, it is recorded that Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law, brought a burnt offering and other sacrifices to God, and Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat bread with Moses’ father-in-law in the presence of God Exodus 18:7–12 What a picture of covenant! It might very well be that it was the signs and wonders of God in Egypt that reached the heart of Jethro who then turned to the living God. Jethro went home a new man, part of God’s kingdom on the earth.
Isaiah tells us more of the same;
Isaiah 56:3–8
These are very clear words that leave no room for interpretation. God’s wants a house of prayer for all nations, gathering others to the Israelites, besides those foreigners already gathered to them. He never stopped gathering Gentiles, and He never will stop until the end
Let’s consider some of the examples of Gentiles that were included into Israel in the Old Testament:
Rahab
Joshua leads the people of God across the Jordan into the Promised Land. Thanks to one woman, a prostitute named Rahab, the city of Jericho is taken. Rahab not only protects the Hebrew spies from her own people, but she confesses the Lord with her mouth, saying, I know that the Lord has given this land to you … the Lord your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below Joshua 2:9–10 Rahab was heroine. She joined the people of Israel, and the Lord honored her beyond what she could have dreamed. Joshua 6:25 Because of her confession and demonstrated love for God, she was included in the genealogy of the very Messiah Himself Matthew 1:5–6
Ruth
The book of Ruth records the story of Ruth and Naomi. Naomi was a Israelite whose husband and sons died in the foreign land of Moab. Both her sons had married Moabite women, and while one of their wives stayed in Moab, the other – Ruth – followed Naomi back to the land of Judah. Not only that, but following Hebrew customs, she married the kinsman redeemer Boaz (whose mother was Rahab) and was not given a whole book in the Bible, but became the ancestor of Christ.
Ninevites
The whole book of Jonah is dedicated to the salvation of a Gentile city – the people of Nineveh but He decides to act because of the wickedness of Nineveh. He does not simply destroy the city, but because of His great mercy He decides to warn them and give them an opportunity to repent. Jonah, His chosen mouthpiece, is well aware of God’s character and refuses to go to Israel’s enemies. God could have let Jonah go, executing the planned judgment, saying, “I tried”, as many of us would have done. However, Jonah’s life was even nearly lost, but God preserved him until he finally gave in and obeyed. And against all odds, one of the most wicked people truly repented and was spared for the time being. Jonah is a great testimony of God’s love for all people, and should be an encouragement to us Gentiles, that He reached us and that we are to reach others, even the worst enemies of God.
No there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, they are both unbelievers and outside the commonwealth of Israel. They have been Invited but only some will be dressed for the wedding.
Matthew 22:1–14 (ESV)
Make no mistake about it, If you are a follower of Christ you are Israel as far as God is concerned.
True Israel Never was strictly about bloodline.
Sure it has. Not a single example exists in Scripture that shows otherwise.
Let’s pick on issue at a time here, shall we?
Let’s take your assumption here,
The Israelites left Egypt with a mixed multitude that became a part of Isreal.
Exodus 12:37–38 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
First off, Scripture says, at the mouth of two or three witness, let EVERYTHING be established.
You’ve provided no evidence to support your opinion that the mixed multitude BECAME Israelites.
You can be with someone and not become that someone. Agreed?
Further, your opinion is directly contradicted in both Ezra and Nehemiah instructed the Israelites to put away / divorce the wives and children they had acquired while in captivity. You’ll have to explain how this undisputed FACT doesn’t refute your opinion about anyone can become an Israelite.
Next, let’s take a topic of your choice. Ruth would be good. I can easily refute the ideas you present.
Kerux
You simply cant get away from the clear teaching of the Bible. I am clearly not cherry picking.
Romans 9:6–8 (ESV)
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
So as Paul says “all Israel will be saved” because Israel Is all who believe God, they trust and obey.
It cannot be made more clear weather you want to believe it or not it is what Scripture says in more that 2 or 3 places. Why don’t you start by explaining this passage, spiritualize away if you like…
Yes you are correct that is doesn’t definitively say the mixed multitude became part of Israel…
My opinion is what scripture says. I find no contradiction with Ezra. The problem in Ezra was that they had taken on Unbelieving pagan wives and all the Abominations that came with them. Ezra 9:1 This is not what I have described. The point in Ezra is that these wives had not joined and had no intent to join Israel.They remained pagan and never worshiped the God of Jacob. This is still what God tells us in the New Testament. 2 Corinthians 6:14–15 1 Corinthians 15:33 and likewise in the old Deuteronomy 7:3–4 It has always been about whether you believe and serve YHWH or other gods not about your bloodline. You are trying to mix my words, I never said God calls and all Gentiles agree to join Israel. I said God calls his people “Israel” out of the Gentiles. God has never called Unbelievers into Israel and he has always told Israel to separate herself from said people. God calls whom he chooses and anyone who believes God and repents of their sin becomes part of Israel. It is and always has been about the heart.
The Book of Nehemiah is more of the same.
So i have provided you well over 2 or 3 witnesses but you will still refuse it.There are 50 more examples in the OT that explain how to treat a foreigner who joins with Israel i.e. a converted gentile.
Do you think we are in the “church age” the “age of Grace” and that the God of the OT was not as Graceful as he is in the NT? God has always shown grace, mercy and forgiveness to those who believe in him and turn from their evil ways NT as well as Old.
God Has always called his people out of the Nations (Gentile unbelievers) and into Israel (His people, children of God, heirs of the promises/covenant, the lost sheep, those who believe God and repent of sin). He always has and always will until the end.
If you are not Israel than Christ is not for you.
Matthew 15:24
Matthew 10:5–15
If they will not hear the call they are not the lost sheep.
Seems like you have all the answers.
I’m going reserve my time and energies for someone teachable.
Do you mind? How old are you?
I would be happy to hear your take. I am always willing to consider I may be in error. After all none of us have it all figured out. I am not easily offended so give it a go, I’ll weigh your points against scripture and do my best to consider your perspective with an open heart. Iron sharpens Iron as the good book says. Should we still not come to an agreement your efforts will not be for nothing, as your words will have been read by the many who frequent this page. I am always willing to different perspectives. Maybe I wont agree with your overall contentions but I’m sure you could lead me to some new truth. I don’t intend to be overly authoritative in my writing, I have just come to a point where I don’t like being told “what truth is” without proof to back it up. To answer your question; I am in my mid 30s and have been a Christian for over 20 years. I have been learning Gods word since I was in diapers and will continue until i die or till Christ returns . Around the age of 22 I started to see that much of what I had been taught was doctrine of men and not scripture. And since I have been studying daily to test everything I believe. I am still learning If that’s what your asking.