The Pope says “Who am I to judge?” Rather astonishing coming from the alleged the vicar of Christ… Perhaps he is not equipped to judge. But “The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.”(1 Co 2:15) and consider this passage, “Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!”(1 Co 6:2–3) Given the scripture is clear this behavior leads to hell (1 Cor 6:9), it is a dereliction of moral duty not to make a judgement. The idea is that we do not judge hypocritically, but we must make judgments.
But we know that the law is good, provided one uses it legitimately. We know that the law is not meant for a righteous person, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral and homosexuals, for kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching based on the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was entrusted to me.” (1 Ti 1:8–11)
About Cris Putnam
I draw this distinction. I judge, but I do not condemn. Sin is sin, of which we are all guilty. Our goal should always be to preach the gospel and share the love of Christ. With this goal in mind, the condemnation from their fellow man brings resentment and vitriol, but condemnation from the holy spirit leads to shame and repentence. Lead them to Christ, do not excuse sin and let the spirit do the work. We fish for men leading into justification. The holy spirit will sanctify leading to righteousness.
Oh, my dear lord!!!!
I knew it was coming sooner or latter,and here it is!
If the pope was meaning that ‘He condemns not the person ‘ by the words ‘who am I to judge judge’ Then he is right. For it is Christ which will “Judge The Living and the dead” Acts10:42
The practice of Homosexuality cannot -but- be judged for what it is, ‘an abomination’
The homosexual is free to choose his or her way of life. but they do not have the right to impose it upon people as ‘Normality’ which they do constantly these days, even at public school level.
One only has to see the glimpse of their ‘mardi-gras parades’ and acknowledge the blatant Filth of the sinful nature unrestrained.
This pope is playing The popularity Game with the masses, The true ‘Humanitarian lover’
This is the Jesuit’s methodic allurement for the consolidation of power.
It does not appear such at present, that the beast will one day again as in the past, speak with the authority of the Dragon Rev13:11
Wow! Must be The ‘Brazilian Air’
He was referring to all gay people not just priests. Being a diplomat and working on improving vatican’s image and casting a wider net this statement is quite reasonable.
In addition he referred it in context of gay people who are seeking the Lord and that have good will. This opens up solid opportunities for those gays to cure themselves of homosexuality in the process of seeking as there is plenty of evidence of gays turning back to heterosexuals after acknowledging the pitfalls of the gay lifestyle and truly seeking help through Jesus Christ.
Fact is that majority of gays today are lifestyle gays brought to the lifestyle by various emotional and chemical imbalances rather than being born that way. Therefore If we judge them by their current lifestyle in their honest seeking, we risk losing those opportunities of saving a few more souls.
Owl; my observation of the ‘gay lifestyle’ is that it is no longer endemic.
I think that the pope’s statement receives approval within the broader community whose acceptance of this lifestyle is only fuelling the Fiery Judgment. Jude7
The pope distinguishes between ‘Homosexual orientation’ and ‘Homosexual Lobby’ saying that the real problem is with the Lobbyist.
Where does one draw the line? In what context do the words ‘Coming out’ apply?
The other thing to consider is; where is the point of reprobation. Rom1:28
Pope’s statement towards the gay lobby a couple of months ago was a different matter altogether. He acknowledged the problem within the church ranks and plans to do something about it unless he gets diffused in the process.
Regarding the gay orientation, you can always draw the line where Jesus drew the line in the example of stoning the prostitute. He forgave her but did not excuse the act of prostitution. In a similar way with the gay orientation, if a gay individual is honestly trying to seek God then obviously God will do the necessary work and we have no right to judge especially if we are also sinners, and we are.
The fact that the majority of the gay community will attempt to spin pope’s statement as supportive of the lifestyle is just a worthless manipulation and wishful thinking by those that will get judged in the end. Let them if they stubbornly desire to be lost.
Francis will never discipline the “gay lobby,” given the tendency toward “cheap grace” in most of institutionalized Christianity. He’s the perfect representative of what the Catholic Church has become after Vatican II. He couldn’t be a more appropriate Pope for this age.
And this age is the End of the age!…“cheap grace” must be fabricated grace, That means; Its ain’t worth a Dime!
Glad to see that you use not the ‘Title’ before the name. (Francis will never discipline the “gay lobby,” )
The fact is; Homosexuality is part and parcel of the Roman Catholic Church ‘hello alter-boys’… Let’s getreal!
My heart grieves for these abused boys.. The Lord Knows their grief.. Priests ye are called, ye Sodomites, Hell awaits you who cloak yourselves in the name of the Holy One………….
Homosexuality/pedophilia absolutely is part and parcel of the Roman church. This is evident if one tracks back through history to the time of Constantine and the Mysteries of Mithra, the dominant religion of the Roman legions of the time.
Francis certainly is moving right along in creating the world religion, where all is acceptable to God. How long until he announces that pedophilia in the priesthood is okay because those priests are born with a predilection to sex with children? This just gets more interesting by the day, disturbing, but interesting. I remember as a child sitting and listening to the adults in my little country church discussing end-times prophecy. It seemed like something in the far distant future at the time. How strange to be living and seeing all the things those simple farmers talked about coming to fruition.
This comment from one Charles Cosimano on a comment thread in “The American Conservative” magazine’s Web site is more prescient than we might realize:
“This Pope is extraordinarily clever, no question about that. He genuinely sets my Borgia radar spinning with every move so well calculated. And the news media, coming off the freak shows of the last years of John Paul the Creepy and Benedict, are reacting as would be expected. They are lapping it up.
“What is going on his devious Papal mind? That will come out eventually but it is pretty obvious that he has decided that the traditionalists are not going to play a public role, they are bad PR, and everything is PR. The liberals may come roaring back, which will make things interesting.
“It seems to be his rule to say, ‘Where does the news media want me to go? I must lead the Church there.'”
I truly believe the Catholic Church is going into freefall, if it’s not there, already. More and more Catholics are going to wonder, “Just what the Hell is happening?” The split between traditionalists and progressives will become even more pronounced than it is, already, and the non-traditionalist conservatives will lose all credibility because all they do is defend the ecclesiastical institution at all costs.
I don’t believe Pope Francis is a manipulator, at all. His mission is promote God’s Love for All. God’s Love for All, a love that is beyond measure… So many among us feel unworthy of God’s love because they are reminded by others how deficient and weak they are to rectify their tendencies toward addictive or self-destructive behaviors which distance them further from God. Yet God waits patiently for his prodigal children to return to him. God sees the dignity in all. It is the truth. It seems that God loves us and waits for us to turn from our evil ways or to become strong when we are weak. God in his infinite mercy( that is “infinite mercy”) will wait for us to live more disciplined lives which could only happen if us Christians and Christian Catholics avail ourselves to the weaker among us; our calling is to help and that is because we are instruments of God’ love. Readers, we need to be involved in charitable and merciful works in the name of Love for our fellow man. Let us remember that we are all descendants of Gentiles and Pagans, not just Jews who were the apple of God’s eyes. Judge not, lest you be judged—Matt. 7:1 Examine your consciences before allowing yourselves to take the way of the elitist.
Hi Hada; i think that we need to see Sin for what it is. That is something the pope seem to be ‘whitewashing over’
The issue is the pope’s statement ; (Who am i to judge)
Homosexuality is a ‘gross abomination’ which receives the support of the majority.
There is no indication for the willingness of repentance, if anything the support grows and policies are put into place to liberate this Evil.
The pope should call it what it is (an evil practice of the wicked) That is what God calls it.
Cris pointed out above,“The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.”(1 Co 2:15)
The pope refers himself as the ‘Holy father’ by that standard he makes himself judge.
You further say; (Readers, we need to be involved in charitable and merciful works in the name of Love for our fellow man).
One thing I have come to realise; people always receive acts of mercy, But they do not want the Name of ((Jesus)), They will take your bread, but Not the ‘Bread of Life’ and we know that Merciful Works does not change the sinful heart. Sinners need the Gospel!
It is only ((Jesus)) and His perfect sacrifice accepted in Faith, that God has decreed for the return of the ‘prodigal’
But is not the “evil practice” of the wicked or in this case, the homosexual, homosexual sex? It’s the attempt at sexual intercourse between two men or two women, an act that is not natural. That is the distinction: The person and the act are distinguished. The person, he or herself, who by virtue of genetic-hormonal anomalies and unique circumstances, has turned to homosexual tendencies. Are they better off disciplining themselves to have healthy platonic relationships? Probably. I do see your point that the sexual objectification of members of the same sex is forbidden by the Lord. I beckon back to the point made on another post( on another subject) about homosexuality, namely that homosexuals of Sodom and Gomorrah were an abomination to God. They were probably partiers and/or the pedophiles who enjoyed sex with young boys. Nero liked doing it too. And they did to satisfy themselves, a very selfish act. Men without conscience. But what of those of homosexual tendency who refrain from homosexual romance and sexual activity by choice? Often it is concluded that living a celibate life and channeling sexual drives to pursuing healthy creative outlets or service to others is a remedy. And one surrounding themselves by healthy, well-rounded, religious, and spiritual people helps.
Louthesaint, it is you and I who heed the command that Jesus gave us, that is to” “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matt 5:48 And since you and I have responded to the call for holiness and strive for it everyday, as does Pope Francis, you and I will help guide the weak to God in the name of God’s love, guide them to believe in HIS mercy, and to restore order to those who live disordered lives loving kindness and guidance. And we should not fear the homosexual who has a good heart. Many were raised in religious and traditional households, andt their families chose to love them over rejecting them. They probably are prayed for by those who love them, and sometimes it takes faith to let go and let God orchestrate conversion where human efforts have failed.
But is not the “evil practice” of the wicked or in this case, the homosexual, homosexual sex? It’s the attempt at sexual intercourse between two men or two women, an act that is not natural. That is the distinction: The person and the act are distinguished. The person, he or herself, who by virtue of genetic-hormonal anomalies and unique circumstances, has turned to homosexual tendencies. Are they better off disciplining themselves to have healthy platonic relationships? Probably. I do see your point that the sexual objectification of members of the same sex is forbidden by the Lord. I beckon back to the point made on another post( on another subject) about homosexuality, namely that homosexuals of Sodom and Gomorrah were an abomination to God. They were probably partiers and/or the pedophiles who enjoyed sex with young boys. Nero liked doing it too. And they did to satisfy themselves, a very selfish act. Men without conscience. But what of those of homosexual tendency who refrain from homosexual romance and sexual activity by choice? Often it is concluded that living a celibate life and channeling sexual drives to pursuing healthy creative outlets or service to others is a remedy. And one surrounding themselves by healthy, well-rounded, religious, and spiritual people helps.
Louthesaint, it is you and I who heed the command that Jesus gave us, that is to” “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matt 5:48 And since you and I have responded to the call for holiness and strive for it everyday, as does Pope Francis, you and I will help guide the weak to God in the name of God’s love, guide them to believe in HIS mercy, and to restore order to those who live disordered lives loving kindness and guidance. And we should not fear the homosexual who has a good heart. Many were raised in religious and traditional households, and their families chose to love them over rejecting them. They probably are prayed for by those who love them, and sometimes it takes faith to let go and let God orchestrate conversion where human efforts have failed.
I understand what you say; and I agree that those homosexuals that wish to abstain from the lifestyle should be supported .
I am looking at it in the broader context… In legality and education… That opens the door for all people to explore the abominable, even children.. Let us not underestimate the Spiritual entities (devils) that work within this realm to bind even Heterosexuals into this lust after strange flesh Jude7
Already we see strong support from that factor. That is how i see the popes statement. He just did not say he opposed it!
Understanding the words of Jesus pertaining to the end-time “as it was in the days of Lot” I am of the view that a great ‘reprobation’ is currently under way and that this abomination will be the norm as it was in the days of Lot. We will have to be very careful that our pearls be not cast before swines. to be sure, there is great anger associated with the Homosexual front.
We are I believe as christians, living in perilous times! We will be behind closed doors like Lot, whilst the carnivals and parades revel.
There is no doubt about it, “as it was in the days of Lot” is upon us. Here we have the most powerful leader of The Christian realm giving alms to the Sodomite factory.
The Pope is obviously playing politics (never giving a straight yes or no to the question posed)
Spiritual principalities control the Vatican, and Sodomy is a certain strongman within. The pedophile abuses proves this truth!
The pope needs to remove His white robe and cloak himself with sackcloth, Put a trump at his mouth and proclaim repentance or face judgment. But that will never happen, the better option is the satanic one, Coverup! No light there only darkness………
So well stated Louthesaint.
Let’s face it. It is unjust for any journalist to ask Pope Francis while on a plane before take off about an issue so profound as that which is the church’s attitude toward the homosexual. The man was fielding a bombardment of questions. And anyone who would take 30 seconds of a reply and run with it to argue against the Catholic Pope is someone who may lack in right judgment.
Truth be told, and if he had time, he’d uphold the following taken from CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS
BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS (Read the proclamation to get the context) Knowledge is Power
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html:
“4. There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family. Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. Homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved”.(4)
Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts “as a serious depravity… (cf. Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10). This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered”.(5) This same moral judgment is found in many Christian writers of the first centuries(6) and is unanimously accepted by Catholic Tradition.
Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided”.(7) They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity.(8) The homosexual inclination is however “objectively disordered”(9) and homosexual practices are “sins gravely contrary to chastity”.(10)”.”
And as we consider prophecy on this blog, I think the new religion or new Babylon is the Entertainment Industry which is relaxing and systematically reframing American and Western traditional values related to family and to what constitutes an orderly society. And let’s not forget the proliferation of pornography in all it’s forms( even pedophilia clandestinely traded between the addicted). And from this brainwash, followers are lobbying for political change in western nations to suit their needs. With prayer and activism, hopefully we can prevent the degeneration of the law which governs order in this country.
How exactly is it unjust for a journalist to ask a leader a question?
Hada; I do not disregard your compassion. However; no amount of justification can cover that which God condemns.
Do not be ‘deceived’ said Apostle Paul ” neither fornicators….effeminate, nor homosexuals…….shall inherit the kingdom of God” 1Cor6:9,10
I believe that the root cause of homosexuality is Sin. I am all for support, if there be a willingness to change (a genuine repentance) on the Homosexual behalf. and may God have mercy on those that are so willing.
My observation however; indicate that this is a perversion and not some disordered inclinations.
This is very true that it is a perversion and not some Gene disorder.
For many who indulge in this debauchery are By-sexuals. This is Lust of a diabolical nature unrestrained!
Jaz said; (The other thing to consider is; where is the point of reprobation)
The answer is; where grace becomes judgment.
Reprobates cannot repent, for God has given them over to their depraved mind.
Does that mean that the devil has free reign? Yes it does.
Of course it is not the Popes place to judge, but in his refusal to speak out against the sin of homosexuality that is heavy among the high ones in the Catholic church he is actually condoning it.
Amen to that comment….
Gibs said (the sin of homosexuality that is heavy among the high ones in the Catholic church)
Is there a spiritual tie to the spirits of wickedness in ‘High places’ Eph3:10
It would certainly seem so if one has eyes to see and ears to hear. And we aren’t just talking about the current world-wide scandals of homosexual/pedophile priests and money laundering. We are talking about centuries of sins so profound it boggles the mind. How could they possibly have gotten away with signing a concordat with Hitler and come off smelling like a rose without the assistance of Satan himself? How could they have gotten away with the murder of millions (yes, millions when you count all the crusades, inquisitions and wars they initiated) and yet still be seen as the leader of the Christian world, without evil spirits assisting?
Absolutely. When I think of hetorsexual and homosexual sex, I think of ‘gates’. Hetorsexual union is natural and can lead to fruit-children. But homosexual sex (in particular men) is a slap in the face of the man being the husband, priest and father of the home. To put his seed where no fruit could never bare is a slap in the face of our Father. A Catholic priest is supposed to love himself and love others. But the homosexual loathes himself. He is not a ‘husbandman’ and cannot tend to true gardening. Ephesians 5. So there could not be such a thing as a homosexual priest=impossible (I say this, as according to ‘their’ doctrine.) But b/c this institution is a dragon that speaks like a lamb, they can make it seem possible.
The other thing is the decemation of the father figure. Homosexuality makes men the ‘receivers’ and not the ‘givers’. YAHSUA, gives HIS life, for HIS wife, the bride, those who trust HIM.