The recent debate which ensued over my Christian Transhumanism research attracted the attention of the Mormon Transhumanist Association. Mr. Lincoln Cannon seemed to feel slighted that they only merited a passing mention because I do not consider Mormons to be Christian. It’s disingenuous in the extreme that they identify as such. They are not even remotely Christian. It is clear that they do not follow the New Testament teachings of Jesus, rather the elaborate fictions created by a masonic con man Joseph Smith. I recently read a piece by researcher William H Kennedy who connected Italian dictator Mussolini to Mormons via their common belief to be blood descendants of Jesus.(Apparently, Mussolini was even given the “baptism for the dead” and is a Saint in the LDS Church.)[1] Mussolini aside, this fact about the Mormon bloodline belief I had to verify for myself.
Not only is it true, apparently Smith even claimed to be in the blood line of Jesus. In the book, Dynasty of the Holy Grail: Mormonism’s Sacred Bloodline, Vern G. Swanson cites Brigham Young on the matter of Smith’s pure divine heritage:
“That blood which was in him was pure and he had the sole right and lawful power, as he [Joseph Smith] was the legal heir to the blood that has been on the earth and has come down through a pure lineage. The union of various ancestors kept that blood pure.” [2]
LDS apostle, Wilford Woodruff, recorded Joseph Smith claiming that Jesus was married in his journal on July 22, 1883:
“Evening Meeting. Prayer By E Stephenson. Joseph F Smith spoke One hour & 25 M. He spoke upon the Marriage in Cana at Galilee. He thought Jesus was the Bridgegroom and Mary & Martha the brides. He also refered to Luke 10 ch. 38 to 42 verse, Also John 11 ch. 2 & 5 vers John 12 Ch 3d vers, John 20 8 to 18. Joseph Smith spoke upon these passages to show that Mary & Martha manifested much Closer relationship than Merely A Believer which looks Consistet. He did not think that Jesus who decended throug Poligamous families from Abraham down & who fulfilled all the Law even baptism by immersion would have lived and died without being married.” [3]
This was not a unique belief but was common within the Mormon leadership as Mormon Apostle Orson Hyde stated,
“Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” [4]
Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt also held the heretical belief,
“One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that greatly loved Jesus — such as Mary, and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them, and associated with them much; and when He arose from the dead, instead of showing Himself to His chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them — namely, Mary Magdalene. Now it would be natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were His wives” [5]
Smith did not exhibit Christ like character. His arrest record and womanizing are a matter of public record. The book of Mormon has been demonstrated by scholars to be plagiarized from various sources. It’s all available in the historical record and it does not bode well for Latter Day Saints. So are Mormons Christian? Was Jesus a polygamist? Is the DaVinci Code true?
Not a chance.
When Mormon Transhumanists use these conjured Mormon scriptures to prop up their ambitions to make gods of themselves you can be sure they are deceived. There are a host of other reasons why Mormons are not Bible believing Christians, let me commend to you the film The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon:
[1] William H. Kennedy. The Mussolini Code. http://www.williamhkennedy.com/ducedavinci.html (accessed 02/25/20110)
[2] Vern G. Swanson. Dynasty of the Holy Grail: Mormonism’s Sacred Bloodline. Google Books Link. 285.
[3] Wilford Woodruff’s Journal 8:187, July 22, 1883.
[4] Orson Hyde. Journal of Discourses 2:82
[5] Orson Pratt. The Seer, p.159 http://www.archive.org/details/OrsonPratt
About Cris Putnam
Interesting recent posts relating to Mormonism Cris! I’ve been fascinated with the religion since an LDS friend told me about it during my college days. While I admire their commitment to family, and other laudable charateristics, I have found their religion to be perhaps the most incredible delusion ever sold. What is so amazing to me is that since my buddy tried to sell it to me, I have found there is not a shred of evidence that what Joseph Smith came up with is true in the historical sense. Not a shred of archeological evidence for the elaborate civilizations that he described in the Book of Mormon. Not so with the Bible where the evidence bears it out.
In my subsequent convos with Mormons, when I’m able to confront them with the evidence, they say something like, ” “It really doesn’t matter how many ways you disprove the authenticity of The Book of Mormon, I still believe it is true.” It’s truly amazing the depth of deception. Thank God He can and does break through the deception.
Thanks Bret,
Yes I am afraid the situation is most unpleasant as Joseph Smith was undoubtedly one of the greatest con men of all time. It reminds a lot of scientology created by science fiftion author L Ron Hubbard who said, `Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous, If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.’
What you say about the Mormon people is correct in that most are very nice, highly moral people that are an asset to their communities. The problem is they are deceived by a false religion. It’s extremely difficult to communicate it in a gentle way because they are so indoctrinated. The film I posted above is made by ex Mormons and would be a really good starting place for a Mormon who wants to become a Christian.
“Is my faith based upon something historical? Very important question to ask.”
I agree. I don’t agree with the implied conclusions. Although history IS important, it is NOT the most important aspect of religious faith. The most important aspect of religious faith is its consequence. How does a particular trust affect our thoughts, words and behavior? What is the cash value of trust in X versus Y? Judging from practical consequences, in what should we trust and how should we trust it?
My trust is not in the Book of Mormon or any other book. My trust is in Christ, the example of Jesus, and our opportunity to become more like him in benevolent and creative capacity. I value the Book of Mormon, the Bible and many other books to the extent they strengthen our trust in Christ.
As there are significant challenges to the historicity of the Book of Mormon, there are significant challenges to the historicity of the Bible and other important spiritual books. I, like many others, experienced disillusionment as I became aware of these shortcomings relative to my childhood expectations. Consequent to such experience, many have discarded religious faith. In my case, I became aware of what some scholars have called the “monomyth” or the “perennial philosophy”. I found inspiration in that, and my disillusionment became conversion to a different faith, focused on Christ rather than interesting peripherals.
Cris, I’m interested in your claim that Mussolini was given a Mormon burial rite. Aside from making the initial claim, I don’t see anywhere that you’ve addressed the idea, or given support for it. Can you give a reference for me? If you are instead referring to Mussolini having received an LDS “baptism for the dead”, you should be aware that this is not a burial rite.
Baptism for the dead, as well as other LDS rites performed “for the dead” are identical with the equivalent rite performed for a living member of the LDS church, with the exception that the language of the rite has added something to the effect that a living person is performing the rite in behalf of the dead individual. The dead individual’s body is not involved. The person does not even need to have had any connection to the LDS church while alive. the LDS church is making no claim to or about the deeds of the individual.
I am also interested in hearing from you what the significance is of the connection you’ve found between Mussolini and Mormons.
@buraianto Thanks for your input, “burial rite” was incorrect terminology I edited it for clarity. It is footnoted to William H Kennedy’s article on Mussolini. He makes the connections. Apparently Mussolini is a LDS saint?
“Future LDS President Elder Lorenzo Snow moved to Genova in 1850 seeking converts but the LDS Church was expelled from Italy in the 1860s. In 1900 the Mormons sought to continue missionary efforts in Rome but were refused and the founder of Fascism could easily have read about their strange theology in the newspapers. Ironically, Benito Mussolini was given a “baptism for the dead” and is a Saint in the LDS Church. ” http://www.williamhkennedy.com/ducedavinci.html
@Lincoln apart from God’s revelation in the Bible you would not have any knowledge of Jesus. You seem to have just made up your own religion (Prov. 14:12).
“My trust is not in the Book of Mormon or any other book. My trust is in Christ, the example of Jesus,”
The example of Jesus comes from the Gospels. Where else? So it indeed comes from a book. It’s disingenuous to group the Bible and the BoM in the same category. In Mormonism we have contradictory claims to the Gospels and the cannon of established scripture. They cannot both be true. The Bible can be traced back to manuscripts very close to the time of Jesus. We have very good reasons to accept it as authentic. The Book of Mormon is 1800 years later and composed by a convicted con man. There simply is no comparison.
Cris, I find Christ in many places apart from the Bible, and even apart from books generally.
You sound like a New Ager now. The Christ (and God) you have found does not match up to the one revealed in scripture. By promoting Transhumanism you are not honoring Christ but the technological hopes of largely atheists. Materialism is atheistic, you seem more like a secular humanist that uses religious buzz words.
Cris, thanks for the feedback.
How can you know it’s really Jesus if what you experience doesn’t line up with the Jesus in the Gospels?
How can you know that the gospels matter?
Because they alone contain the words of Christ. Are you now saying they don’t matter? What happened to your claims to be a Christian?
Lincoln,
The Bible has been shown to be reliable and it alone contains Jesus’ teaching. Here’s an excerpt from John Piper that may be helpful:
—————————————————
Let me try to illustrate what I mean by the self-authenticating message of Christ and His witnesses. The biblical accounts present Jesus as a man of incomparable love for God and man. He became angry when God was dishonored by irreligion (Mark 11:15–17) and when man was destroyed by religion (Mark 3:4–5). He taught us to be poor in spirit, meek, hungry for righteousness, pure in heart, merciful, and peaceable (Matthew 5:3–9). He urged us to honor God from the heart (Matthew 15:8) and to put away all hypocrisy (Luke 12:1). And He practiced what He preached. His life was summed up as “doing good and healing” (Acts 10:38).
He took time for little children and blessed them (Mark 10:13–16). He crossed social barriers to help women (John 4), foreigners (Mark 7:24–30), lepers (Luke 17:11–19), harlots (Luke 7:36–50), tax collectors (Matthew 9:9–13), and beggars (Mark 10:46–52). He washed disciples’ feet like a slave and taught them to serve rather than be served (John 13:1–17). Even when He was exhausted, His heart went out in compassion to the pressing crowds (Mark 6:31–34). Even when His own disciples were fickle and ready to deny Him and forsake Him, He wanted to be with them (Luke 22:15), and He prayed for them (Luke 22:32). He said His life was a ransom for many (Mark 10:45), and as He was being executed at age thirty-three, He prayed for the forgiveness of His murderers (Luke 23:34).
Not only is Jesus portrayed as full of love for God and man; He is also presented as utterly truthful and authentic. He did not act on His own authority to gain worldly praise. He directed men to His Father in heaven: “The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood” (John 7:18). He does not have the spirit of an egomaniac or a charlatan. He seems utterly at peace with Himself and God. He is authentic.
Desiring God p. 324
Cris, how do you know the gospels alone contain the words of Christ? More importantly, how do you know the words of Christ matter?
What I am getting at Lincoln is that Jesus message in the Gospels is self authenticating because it is so transcendent of what self centered men pursue. When you look at the character that shows through and then look at all of the OT prophecies like Isaiah 53 that Jesus fulfills you can trust He is for real.
Then there is all of the historical evidence for the resurrection that proves his message as well.
I do not see that with Joseph Smith. I see an ambitious treasure hunter documented for perpetrating frauds – who created his own religion to satisfy his own selfish ambitions.
Its no contest.
Cris, the reasoning in the text does not answer my questions. Why should any of us care that the Bible portrays Jesus as loving, truthful, humble, peaceful and authentic?
Cris, why do you care that the Bible portrays Jesus as a person that transcends egotism?
@Lincoln The proven historical reliability of the NT, the growth of the early church, the evidence for the resurrection all point to a trustworthy source. Because Jesus’ message is authentic I can trust that he is God and that I can have life in His name:
““For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.” ” (John 3:16–21)
“… self authenticating because it is so transcendent of what self centered men pursue.” Sounds new agey to me. 😉
On a less snarky note, while I know you — and many others — disagree with me, I find many teachings of Joseph Smith to be just as transcendent of what self-centered men pursue.
@buraianto I would submit to you it’s because he plagiarized the King James amongst other sources. It’s a documented fact:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Book_of_Mormon#Plagiarism_from_the_King_James_Bible
It is his behavior that gives him away.
Cris, you care about Jesus as described in the Bible because you want a particular kind of life, and you are persuaded by various evidences both internal and external to the Bible that you can get that particular kind of life through Jesus as described in the Bible. Is that accurate?
No, I actually did not want this kind of life at all. My best idea was to be a rock star but God had other ideas.
“For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it. ” (Mark 8:35)
“I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. ” (Romans 12:1)
Cris, are you saying that God forced you to care about Jesus as described in the Bible?
Lincoln, in a sense, yes I am. However I think the term “irresistible grace” is more accurate. I was led to cross by my own sin. My best ideas nearly killed me. I am completely different than I was 10 years ago. It was not really my idea. I give all the credit to God. “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. ” (Ephesians 2:8–9)
Cris, you are telling me that if we go to heaven then it’s all God’s doing and that if we go to hell then it’s all our doing. Is that accurate?
Before I answer that, did you watch the “irresistible grace” video I linked to?
Yes. John’s words, both in the video and in the text you quoted previously, combine internally contradictory rhetoric with Calvinism that I reject on moral grounds.
What exactly is internally contradictory or immoral?
Will you please first answer my question before we move along, Cris?
Actually I have been doing all the work here I think you should answer a few of mine. What exactly is internally contradictory or immoral about God’s grace as described by John Piper?
What does this text mean to you? “But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) By no means! For then how could God judge the world? But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.” (Ro 3:5-8)
Cris, Lincoln has also been doing plenty of work on this thread. I think you should answer his question. What are you afraid of? A simple yes or no would suffice.
Here are two examples of internal contradiction in John’s rhetoric, the first from the quote and the second from the video:
1) He appeals to our sense of the Bible’s authenticity to demonstrate that the Bible is “self-authenticating”. If the Bible were actually self-authenticating, no appeals would be needed. We would all simply consent to it.
2) He describes God’s grace as “irresistible” because “he can make Christ look so compelling that our resistance is broken and we freely come to him”. If we are compelled then we are not free.
John’s description of God’s grace, like all articulations of Calvinism, is immoral (or perhaps amoral) because it allocates salvation and damnation without consideration of desires, wills, laws or consequences.
Cris, will you now please answer my question? Do you believe that if we go to heaven then it’s all God’s doing and that if we go to hell then it’s all our doing?
1) It’s self authenticating to those who God calls. “but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. ” (John 10:26–28)
2) Who said you were free? This is where your Pelgainism leads you astray. Have you ever sinned in your life? –> Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. ” (John 8:34) According to Jesus you are not free. Do you believe Jesus? Are you a Christian?
“Do you believe that if we go to heaven then it’s all God’s doing and that if we go to hell then it’s all our doing?”
The Bible is crystal clear, “as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” ” (Romans 3:10–12) Everyone deserves hell. It is entirely up to God if he wants to save some of us by his grace.
You think it is immoral?
“What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. ” (Romans 9:14–18)
You have proven my original point. Your theology is not biblical, its just humanism dressed up in religious language.
Cris, thank you for the time you’ve invested in discussing these ideas with me.
Lincoln, I hope you will consider that if your ideas about God are not rooted in God’s own revelation then they are not likely to be true. Jesus warned us that false prophets would appear and tell people what they wanted to hear. We want to hear that we are good people not that we are lost sinners. The Bible says different. God’s sovereign grace is a hard message, which is another mark of authentication because it is not convenient for prideful man who thinks he can earn it. It’s not the kind of thing men make up. Men make up things that tell them “it’s all about them” like Mormon doctrine and transhumanism. Ask yourself “which gives more glory to God?” and there you will find the answer as to which comes from God.
Cris, I thanked you for your time. I didn’t agree with your interpretation of scripture (for what it’s worth, here’s an alternative interpretation of the passage that’s persuading you to Calvinism: http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/romans_9.html). For you, charging someone with non-Biblical or extra-Biblical perspectives necessitates a response. For me, it necessitates nothing, and sometimes only gets a shrug. I’m more concerned with trust in the benevolence and creativity of a participatory Christ than I am with Biblical dogma. I don’t mind being classified with atheists and humanists, even if it’s not accurate, because I have much in common with some of them. I AM an atheist relative to any oppressive God. I AM a trans-humanist. I am also a Christian, so long as that is not understood to entail the nihilism of trust in an oppressive God or anti-humanism. So far as I can tell, God is most glorified by demonstrating a capacity to transform creatures into creators – creating not merely that which is less than himself, but creating that which equals himself. That being the case, Mormonism and Transhumanism must come from God.
Lincoln, I think that says it all – thanks! Hebrews 4:12: For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two- edged sword, and piercing as far as spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Then there are mere opinions: (Prov. 14:12; 2 Cor. 4:4) Thus ground your opinions in the word.
Cris, I haven’t seen you appeal to anything for proof of the authenticity of your system of belief that is any different, or any more persuasive, than the things that millions of Mormons appeal to for proof of the LDS system. Or Muslims or Buddhists, for that matter. I don’t understand why you think you’re somehow different.
@buraianto It’s not that I think I am different. Christianity is different. All of these religions have contradictory truth claims, they can not all be right. So the challenge is to do some honest investigation. When you do biblical Christianity comes out on top as utterly distinct. It is not even close.
I’m not appealing to my feelings. I appeal to the accuracy of the New Testament transmission. I appealed to the historical veracity of the Bible as verified by archeology. I appealed to the 100’s of prophecies fulfilled in Jesus. The accurate prophecies concerning nations like Tyre, Greece and Rome. I appeal to the historical argument for Jesus resurrection which you can find presented and defended on this site. Joseph Smith was dragged from jail and beaten to death for being a con man, Buddha has a grave, Muhammad has a grave, Jesus has an empty tomb and lots of evidence supporting his resurrection. This is exactly where Mormonism utterly fails. Textual criticism shows the book of Mormon to be plagiarized. Archeology and DNA science has proven the book of Mormon to be false. There are numerous false prophecies given by Smith.
I don’t think I am better than you, I just want you to find the truth as well.
WOW! I have some serious reading to do after reading this blog. Chris, I thank the Lord for your hard work. May the Lord richly bless you and protect you, your heart and mind. May He strengthen your hands for war and your fingers for battle. I pray that others like you will take up arms to proclaim the Gospel with boldness and love to GIVE HONOR and GLORY to the name of Jesus. The Name above all names. God bless you.
Mark
Cris,
Keep up the good work. The article is good. Mormonism is sending hundreds of thousands of souls to Hell. Maybe millions. Joseph Smith is a con man, without doubt. It’s funny how all these cults like the LDS and the Catholic church want to claim Christ then they go about changing Him.
Why don’t they just make up another savior for themselves? It would be just as valid.
I think the fact that they use Christ shows that He is the only way. Every religion wants a piece of Jesus, even the pagans want to claim Him in some form or other.
It would be pretty ridiculous if it wasn’t for the fact that there’s real consequences to believing their absurd claims.
the movie link doesn’t work anymore, here’s one that works:
for fair use and instructional purposes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0o5UVN8I08
You may need to repost this entry given the mormon push for their candidate and their advertsising of late.
If Joseph F. Smith said that Jesus was the bridegroom in the marriage of Cana that means Jesus was invited to His own marriage.This is a ridiculous thinking and a clear twisting of the Scriptures making St John a cheater.If Joseph F.Smith is wrong and he is wrong,that means a lot of dangerous things.Lies sell very well but the truth always prevails and anything based on a lie is a lie.The Holy blood Holy grail pretend that Jesus escaped death on the cross and married Mary Magdalene.Then da vinci code pretend a secret marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdalene and the real blood of the grail is inside Mary based on the painting of the last supper by leonardo da vinci.The truth is that REAL and HOLY blood is on Jesus’ forehead and not in the womb of Mary Magdalene or any other woman.This is revealed in the true story the coin of the temple by souheil bayoud.The impossibility of the marriage of Jesus cannot be seen by the blinds and is not revealed to opponents to Orthodox Christianity and the Church.
Hey, non need to post this comment, but I can’t get any of your videos to play I have Windows XP. I don’t have any problems getting videos to play at other sites and in other formats, such as YouTube, Gmail video, Vimeo, & etc.
. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Like I said, no need to post this to any page.
“Larry”