This is a webinar recorded by Jerry Robinson of JRMI. We talked about my books and how the two might fit together to explain the final events predicted in biblical prophecy.
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.
Comments
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
-
[…] Understanding the End Times Vatican-Alien Connection – Want to understand the End Times? Jesus is coming back. Are you ready to meet Him? If not, you’d better prepare yourself. […]
-
best Denver DUI lawyer
Understanding the End Times Vatican-Alien Connection — Logos Apologia
-
learn more
Understanding the End Times Vatican-Alien Connection — Logos Apologia
-
read more
Understanding the End Times Vatican-Alien Connection — Logos Apologia
-
best DUI Attorney Denver
Understanding the End Times Vatican-Alien Connection — Logos Apologia
Mr Putman: during your interview you make mention of a coming ‘great deception’ and that the UFO phenomenon would actively be the contributor. There seems to be a lot of end time prophetic ministries advocating this UFO great deception and are tying it to the Nephilim of Gen6
The scripture that is used by the adheres of this ‘great deception’ doctrine relate it to the letter of St Paul to the Thessalonians chap2.
The text however does not make mention of a ‘Great deception’, but mentions an end time ‘Apostasy’ 2Thes2:3 which is the climatic result of “the working of the mystery of Lawlessness” 2Thes2:7
The text also states that the Apostasy brings forth “the man of lawlessness, the son of perdition in an exalted position”2Thes2:4
I would say that the ‘mystery of lawlessness’ has in past times used and still uses many various forms of deception, and that it is and has always been from the beginning directed at the people of God to destroy their faith in the true God.
The Apostasy only applies to the Household of Faith. The word Apostasy = a falling away from the faith of Apostolic constitution.
The other matter of concern is that these Jesuits as you say are implying the reality of ET’s.
I consider this to be a ‘smokescreen’ diverting attention from the real agenda of the vatican from which will come the ‘Son of perdition in accord with the activity of Satan promoting the Lie of false worship’ 2Thes2:9,10
The Luciferian objective is that he be worshipped and not God 2Thes2:4
These Jesuits are masters of deceit and are fuelling these ‘False end time evangelical doctrines of a great deception by UFO’s’.
The real macoy (son of perdition) is working through beastly governmental legislations (not disclosure) to set the stage for his appearance. When he comes few (God’s elect) will recognise him for who he is (Lucifer incarnate)
“The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,” (2 Th 2:9-11)
Mr Putman: The strong delusion is issued by God and is for the purpose that ‘they’ who did not receive the love of the truth, will believe the false signs and wonders of the coming lawless one with the ultimate purpose being worship. (beastly worship). Rev13:13,14
The strong delusion is the same one the phariseas were under when they crucified Jesus. That they were righteous before God.
I have learned over the years (and is bolstered by many accounts in the bible) that whoever stands before God and boldly proclaims their righteousness better get ready for a huge slice of humble pie. There is only one who walked the earth who was righteous to the bone.
There is deception and there is delusion. One will feed the other.
Yes; and the Lord said that their father was the Devil. They thought that hey worshipped God. And In the same way that Jesus said to the disciples ‘They will put you to death thinking to serve God’.
The whole endtime scenario to me is going to be about false worship of Lucifer. God help Us !
If the ET mythos is an elaborate hoax whose only value is to be used as a smoke screen to reveal the son of perdition, as you say, that is very hard to believe they would go to such lengths.
You discount that an alien presence might be used to enforce and to “bless” the son of perdition. In that case the UFO phenomena plays an integral part in the deception, not just an odd side show.
Cris, I have a quick question: If the Flood destroyed the Nephilim’s descendants, then why would we have to worry about Nephilim DNA or genetic characteristics?
We can derive genetic material from dinausaur bones why couldn’t they from nephilim bones? Whose to say they couldnt be reintroduced into the population?
God told Noah in Genesis 6:19 “And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; the shall be male and female.” Couldn’t that mean include two humans of every race? Since everyone on earth but Noah and his family had the corruped DNA, then the two of every race would have brought their corrupted genes with them through the flood.
As far as the description of the clean and unclean “beasts” that should be loaded on the ark in Chapter 7, IMO it doesn’t mean all living things on the ark were beasts, it is God’s instruction on how many of what type beasts should be on the ark; this being necessary because extra clean beasts were taken aboard for food. They couldn’t eat the unclean beasts, so two of each unclean beasts were needed.
Just thinking outside the box of traditional mainline Christian interpertation of the Bible.
Keeping the context of Gen6 expresses that it was for’ wickedness and the violence of men’ Gen6:13 that grieved God to destroy all Flesh.
The text nowhere says that it was nephilim DNA that corrupted men. It was the imagination of men that corrupted them. Gen6:5
The biblical evidence shows that The nephilim were a race of men with ancestral lineage. Jos14:15 Jos21:11
They were not the one off off-springs of Fallen angels marrying the daughters of men with a second excursion in the days of Moses.
The word should have been second ‘incursion’ and not excursion. spelling mistake!
David fought Goliath who was not entirely human and also picked 5 stones beforehand intended for the remaining family of Goliath. Canaan also had its share of ‘giants’. Satan has continued to defy God and produce his seed. The world we can’t see is something all Christians need to seriously contemplate. Jesus walked through a crowd unseen where he was visible just moments before. The tribulation is going to try the faith of every christian. Many who are in church are not truly saved to include their pastors. These will lead many into excepting the delusion.
I don’t buy the idea that there will be demons mating with women and producing nephilim. That’s ludicrous. I believe demons will pretend to be extraterrestrials. I thought that a good point was brought up with the movies that refer to an alien savior. That would include “The Day the Earth Stood Still”, “Superman”, the TV show “Dr Who”, “Star Wars”, the various Star Trek movies, and “Cocoon”.
You don’t buy that did (as described in Genesis) or that they would in the future?
Lucifer is smarter than any man. His deception will be and is complete and believable by even the Elect, Except God would deliver the Elect, even they would fall.
What ever form, what ever delivery Lucifer uses for his final act does not matter. You will not be able to determine the truth on your own and most likely any intellectual preventative planning that you do will be wrong. Live only for and in your walk with the Almighty. In Him is our only shelter. Let he who has ears to hear and eyes to see realize that he too is both blind and deaf to the Evil One’s plan.
God grant you His protection. Study to know Him not your enemy. Yes it is the opposite of the wisdom of men, who study to know their enemy, so that they more eaisly defeat him. That is one of Lucifer’s best tools. Study to know God. In that way it will be easy when the time comes to what is not God.
This is some very good advise and one I try to follow. The only thing I might add is that we must know our own personal weaknesses too as these will areas that will be challenged the most and lead to our downfall. Even the phariseas believed that they knew God, but failed to humble themselves and were convinced of their own righteousness. We can know God, God can provide the way out, but we must be humble to accept it.
It is surely that the plan of the enemy has always been the under minding of the word of God, “the sacred writings that provides the heavenly wisdom that leads to salvation through Faith which is in Christ Jesus” 2Tim3:15
His deception has to do with the “Lie” 2Thes2:11 (a false salvation and worship) and I believe that it will relate to the undermining of God’s word.
We must no underestimate the role that false teachers and prophets contribute to this end.
Let us keep in mind that the climatic end of this deception will manifest the “Two Horned Lamb like False Prophet” Rev13:11 who will ensure that all but the elect (kept by God’s power) will “Worship the image of the Beast” Rev13:12,15 The Lie of 2Thes2:11
There will be no need for UFO disclosure, for the scripture is clear that “God himself will send the “strong delusion” ( a deluding influence) upon the mind of those who love not the Truth, but took pleasure in wickedness 2Thes2:11,12 There are already Ufo cults that worship alien Gods, Just as the Atheist worships self, Now having the blessings of Salvation form he who rules infallible.
Many christians today are already entangled in false doctrines preparing them for worshipping the beast and His Image. the proponents of ecumenism is creating the road way for the rise of the False Prophet (the Two Horned Lamb & Dragon mixture beast)
Hello jaz; I like your terminology (the Two Horned Lamb & Dragon mixture beast)
This is truly what it is. What a deception. The depth of Satan indeed !…. To appear as Christ’s representative, the gentle lamb of God with the inner nature of Lucifer. Many are going to swallow it Hook and sinker.
This false prophet gives another word in the form of humanistic social Gospel (all can be saved indeed) as you say. Another salvation, another jesus, another god (LUCIFER)
Praise the Lord for your insight. Amen
Excellent!
Three things worthy of noting: If Satan corrupts the seed of men again, giants would not
have the same dominant ability they once had, seeing that we have much more than stones
and swords to battle them with, so that genetic manipulation by Satan would take on a different
form. This goes to the second observance that all references to The Book of Life in the Bible
state that everyone’s name is written in it, and they who do not accept Christ, have their names
blotted out of the Book. In Revelation we have they on the earth wondering whose names were
NOT written in The Book of Life? possibly hybrids/clones/unnaturally made being are not eligible
to have their names written in the Book, maybe hybridization will become chic and desirable
with people not realizing that an artificially made individual is not able to be saved. The third point
is the reference to the beast with seven heads and ten horns. The seven heads are revealed to be
seven mountains, and one of the heads was wounded unto death. Does the head refer to one of
the mountains of Rome, and a person? Do the individual “hills” or mountains have significance
i.e. does the Vatican sit atop one of the mountains?
The seven heads are: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persian, Greece, Pagan Rome, Papal Rome. The eighth head is the ten horns (nations) symbolizing the UN where the nations are assembled now (also the NWO).
The lie is the lie told from the very beginning “Thou shall not die.” There are many many religions and beliefs that are leading people to believe that apart from Christ they will not die. That is the lie. “He that has the Son has life, he that does not have the Son does not have life…but the wrath of GOD remains on him.” 1Jn. 5:13; Jn. 3:36.
Panspermia and the alien gospel that promises life apart from Christ is just another version of the first lie told in the Garden of Eden. As Cris points out, there is stronger belief in aliens than in God at this point in time. That is why Satan will use aliens as a means to deceive if possible the very elect. Cris also makes the excellent point that as long as Satan can deceive the masses without making an appearance why should he make a real appearance to the world? My guess is that he is even not appearing to leaders in one form or another…in secret. These secret encounters could well be what leads the leaders of this world to persecute and kill those who continue to trust in Christ alone for life…even eternal life. The true elect will not believe the lie that there is life, maybe even eternal life apart from Christ.
What if world leaders announced that they have had secret meetings with aliens and that these aliens are promising eternal life if humans only do what they tell us to do? What if one of the things they require is a rejection of Christ as the way to eternal life? What if they insist that humans will only be given the secret to eternal life once they rid the world of humans who refuse to submit and obey their demands?
In this way Satan and his minions will only need to meet with leaders who also live in the darkness. With lying signs and wonders they can deceive the world without ever really manifesting themselves in public.
Then demons will be released from the darkness and will be allowed to torture those without the seal of God that will scare the world into obedience. These demons will be allowed to go to all the world as unclean frogs to deceive the rulers of this world and assemble them together for the war against God.
So I believe that Satan will use the belief in aliens to delude those into believing the strong delusion that eternal life is possible apart from Christ and His cross. But…. “There is no other name given among men by which we may be saved.” There is safety and life only in Christ. Those who endure unto the end the same shall be saved. Amen.
typo: Meant to type “Satan is even “NOW” appearing to leaders in the world”. (to replace: He is even “not” appearing to leaders..)
Bob, you wrote some very profound truths here. You also wrote, “What if one of the things they require is a rejection of Christ as the way to eternal life?”
This is one possibility, but also consider something more maniacal. Consider that a false Christ is present with these alien visitors. They may even be pitched as angels. Then if you reject them you are rejecting the one who the world views as Jesus incarnate.
Thanks HW. I do hold to the notion that one of the fallen angels, maybe even Satan himself will appear as an angel of light and maybe even impersonate our Lord and declare he is the risen Lord.
Not sure if Cris knows this but I have a Seventh Day Adventist relative and he has believed since the 70’s that Satan would impersonate Christ. Ellen White, an SDA founder and prophetess prophesied back in the 1800s that Satan would impersonate Christ’s appearing. SDAs are historic pre-millennialists and that tenet is a part of SDA eschatology. Adventists have done a very poor job of making known this truth they believe. Cris is doing a great job of explaining these things with brilliance. The Christian remnant need to hear these things so they can be prepared for it when it happens and not be taken by surprise.
I favour the ecumenical deception (the worship of Lucifer’s image guised in various religious flavours) over the alien one of a false Christ.
The “strong delusion” is not the work of satan. But rather; it is the work of God giving the wicked over to false worship in rejection of the truth of the Gospel The object of worship is not a false christ but the beast and his image!
Lou, don’t be surprised if its BOTH an alien messiah (they’ll look more angelic then the Hollywood lizard dudes) and the ecumenical image worship.
Here is why I say that. Study the eschatology of Islam. Guess who they are waiting for? Jesus just like we are. Except their Jesus will be riding a mile wide donkey that rides across the sky at great speeds defending Islam and ridding the world of enemies of Islam.
Now that sounds a bit like an alien messiah, doesnt it? And its Islam so there is definitely an ecumenical tie in there.
The ugly nasty aliens come later after the world is consolidated under one world. It Is these “ugly nasty” ones that the world fights at armageddon.
And yes, I agree about the delusion. The delusion is That we are righteous in God’s eyes. The same delusion the phariseas were under when they crucified Jesus.
Hopeful; I don’t buy the alien messiah because there is no scripture to back it up, It just don’t sit right with me.
“the son of perdition Is the ‘key figure’ whom the lord will destroy at his coming” 2Thes2:8
It is he who demands worship as God 2Thes 2:4
There is nowhere in these passages of Apostle Paul to suggest that The son of perdition is some demonic hybrid, some type of nephilim that is going to manifest from a one mile wide UFO, that is pure speculation that seems to be gaining momentum among many prophecy teachers. I would be very weary of it. That teaching leads to the rabbit hole of theosophy and mythology!
Quite to the contrary, A Paul emphatically says that the son of perdition arises and is revealed within the great apostasy 2Thes2:3
I am not denying the existence of Ufo’s, orbs and other occultic phenomenon. satan deceptions take on many facets and the son of perdition is going to be his clincher and that only because God will send the strong delusion (a deluding influence) upon the minds of all who love not the truth enable the unified false worship of the beast and his image (the created thing)
Let me clarify: those who will worship the beast & image are the ones whom God gives over to the Lie.. similar scenario to Rom1:23,24
For this generation it is alien hybrids. For past generations it was the Greek and Roman half man/half god (ie demigods), like Perseus. You must acknowledge this pervasive trend that occurs in legends throughout history. And knowing that Satan is ever present throughout history I don’t doubt for a second for the beliefs of The current age would be utilized to sweep people up in the deception. Nothing ensnares the decieved like confirming their current beliefs.
The “nature” of the deception described in the bible, but the specificty of The details are vague, because they change throughout history to reflect the current culture. Today’s culture is highly technical and scientific therefore the modern day version of The deception will reflect that (imo), but the base story remains the same.
One last thing. I believe the son of perdition is a man. Meaning the Jesus who comes on the clouds (a false one that is) might pass the baton, so to speak and isn’t the One who receives worship.
Michael York, are you the same Michael York who played John the Baptist in the 1977 television mini-series, “Jesus of Nazareth”?
Mr. Putnam, I have recently heard your messages on the internet about the prophecy of the popes, and your book Petrus Romanus. I also heard on the internet your messages on the Vatican and Aliens. I have listened to many of these talks that you and Tom Horn and Steve Quayle have had. I would like to say thank you for talking about these subjects. We are certainly living in unprecedented times; and again thank you for witnessing to God. I’m 51 years old, and come from a catholic family. I have many protestant friends and family. My wife’s family is mostly protestant. My wife became catholic, after our first child was born. I graduated from a catholic high school and did not take my faith seriously most of my life. I always believed in God and in our savior Jesus Christ; but In March of 2005 I had a spiritual experience that has changed me and my life. I was sleeping in my living room, when in a dream like experience I felt the presence of Satan coming through my front door. I felt myself jumping up to defend my wife and children who were sleeping in their rooms. Just as I was saying “don’t you hurt my family” I was moved immediately across my living room to our dining room and placed in front of a crucifix that was on the dining room wall. After that, the presence of Satan was gone. I then felt myself go back to the couch where I had been sleeping. When I woke up I felt physically worn out. Before I could get up off the couch I called for my wife. I told her what had happened, and ask her if we had a crucifix in our dining room. She said to me “yes” and its been there for years. I thought to myself, how could I walk by this crucifix every day for years and not even realize it was there. Well since then I have changed, and my life has changed. I attend mass according to the catholic teaching, and I’m receiving the sacraments. I know God is real. I am sending you this comment I wrote on the number 666. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts. Thank You… Book of Revelation 13: 16-18 [16] And he shall make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads. [17] And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [18] Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six. The information in the following brackets were taken from this source. [Asimov, Isaac. Exploring the Earth and the Cosmos. New York: Wrightfall, 1982: 243. Earth’s average speed of revolution about the sun is 29.8 kilometers per second, or 18.5 miles per second.] 18.5 miles per second equals 66600 miles per hour. Here in the number we find 666 or the Greek numerals χξϛʹ which count the number chi xi digamma, six hundred sixty six. Greek is the language that Saint John wrote The Apocalypse Of Saint John (Revelation). With Greek numerals as well as Roman numerals there is no numeral for 0 (zero). The name of the beast, or the number of his name, six hundred sixty-six; would mean liar. This brings into question the astronomical model of heliocentrism, as opposed to the model of geocentrism. The geocentric model is considered a superceded scientific theory that was once commonly accepted but that is no longer considered the most complete description of reality by a mainstream scientific consenus, or a theory which has been shown to be false. In the book of Joshua: 10: 12-14 [12] Then Joshua spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon. [13] And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day. [14] There was not before nor after so long a day, the Lord obeying the voice of a man, and fighting for Israel. My question is. Is it not true that this text should be taken in the literal sense. For the text states that both the sun and the moon stood still. In the geocentric model this text makes sense. In the heliocentric model this text does not make sense. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this and the number 666. God bless Mother Angelica, (Happy 90th Birthday Mother) and God bless EWTN…
There are several different endtime scenarios out there. What’s important is that we are made aware of possibly HOW Satan will seek to deceive the very elect. Sudden disclosure of alien contact will overwhelm the large part of the professing Christendom.
As for the ‘son of perdition’ in 2Thess. 2, I take that as a prophecy of the Pope who would ‘sit’ in the ‘temple of God’ (the church). That is what caused the great falling away from the true gospel and true Word of God. He is still around and will be until Christ returns and destroyed by fire. The prophecy in 2Thess. 2 is only part of how Satan will deceive. He will use every deception and every lie he can use to deceive the world. Alien saviors will be a part of it…..it already is and growing rapidly.
Agreed on all accounts. We have to ask ourselves what could happen that is so deceptive that even the elect would be deceived, if it weren’t for the Holy Spirit that sets them straight. I believe it to be a false christ.
If Jesus stood in front of you and said I am the Christ and you believed it, would you Have the faith to say “NO!! You are not him” if the Holy Spirit (the very same one in Christ) told you it Is not him? That would be tough right?
I invite you To read an article I wrote that talks of this. I’d be curious to know what you thought.
“https://sites.google.com/site/woetous/salvation”
Hopeful, Bob;
“And he (false prophet) deceives those who dwell on the earth because of ‘the signs’ which it was given him to perform” Rev13:14
I don’t want to push the issue, but the answer is given us in the verse above as to Who and how the deception occurs.
The he who deceives is the False prophet and it is to that end that the strong delusion comes into effect That God Himself will give all who loved not the truth over to be deceived by the signs of this end-time deceiver.
I personally believe that this will be played out within the Religio-Political arena of ecumenical inter-faith.
The delusion will bring in the ‘edict of Image worship’ Rev13:15 as it will relate to the mark of the beast which will be made law. The mark will not be some human DNA altering microchip as is presently being believed by many in various denominations even some catholics now believe this. This mark must be understood in the spiritual context of a False Gospel to which the whole world receives It is associated with The strong delusion.
Apostles Paul’s son of perdition of 2Thes2:3 is the second beast, Lamb&Dragon mix False Prophet of Rev13:11-13
The objective of this end-Time deception is the climatic rebellion of Lucifer desiring to be worshipped as God!
Luke4:6,7
Idolatry, (Image worship) is as old as the establishments of the kingdoms of this world. 1Jn5:19,21
You may be right. I personaly think its going to have elements of “all of the above,” but time will be the true judge of The truth.
Let us agree not to lean on our own understanding, being wise in our own eyes so that we are not caught by surprise, when the spirit of truth reveals all and our pride closes our ears. I make the pledge to humble myself to accept the truth without resistance from my own will.
I agree; The Lord will keep us and show us all truth.
It is good to discuss these things with you Hopeful, I have always enjoyed and appreciated your comments.
God bless you always.
Right back at ya and may the Lord bless you and keep you.
Your positive afirmation means a lot to me.
Lou, what are your thoughts that the idol worship made in his image is the Eucharist?
Hi hopeful; That is a definite, but presently it only applies to catholics. I can’t see Muslims or Buddhists involved unless of course ‘The strong delusion’ facilitates it..
We have in the past, seen the ‘Assisi ecumenical thrust of John Paul 2 ‘ where a Buddha was placed alongside the eucharist on a catholic alter during mass.
What most christians have not realised is the fact that beast worship as revealed in the book of Revelation takes place within the frame work of the Holy Roman Empire represented in the Book of Daniel by the statue of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream “legs of Iron and feet of Miry clay mixed with Iron” Dan2:41
Whatever the image, it will certainly involve The Vatican and the catholic Eucharist along side with Mary, because they are intricately woven within the “Legs of Iron with the feet of Iron and clay”. which goes back to Babylon with the statue’s head of Gold Dan2:37,38
I can’t see catholicism detached from their Eucharistic sun and Mary worship. ‘Mystery Babylon the great’ is carried by the Beast unto the end.
At the present as I see it, it is the God of one’s choice, an ecumenical form of worship by which Lucifer is represented. This could very well merge into what you are suggesting! when God sends the strong delusion.
Thanks for bringing that up!
My foundation for having faith and belief in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, comes from John Chapter 6. In the gospel we hear Jesus the Christ; the Son of the Living God; and the Second Person of The Blessed Trinity speaking in his own words. And by the grace of God and no merit of my own, I say yes Lord and believe. And only by the passion, death, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ may we receive the promise of God the messiah or mashiach. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Here I have copied John chapter 6 from the King James Bible. God bless… 1 After these things Jesus went over the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias.
2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.
3 And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples.
4 And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.
5 When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?
6 And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.
7 Philip answered him, Two hundred pennyworth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one of them may take a little.
8 One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, saith unto him,
9 There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many?
10 And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.
11 And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would.
12 When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.
13 Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.
14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
16 And when even was now come, his disciples went down unto the sea,
17 And entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them.
18 And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew.
19 So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid.
20 But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid.
21 Then they willingly received him into the ship: and immediately the ship was at the land whither they went.
22 The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one whereinto his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples were gone away alone;
23 (Howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after that the Lord had given thanks:)
24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.
25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Charles; I do not think that The early Apostolic churches within Asia minor had white wafer discs embedded into monstrances where christians practised Adoration of the blessed sacrament. This is a ‘Babylonian practice’ introduced at a much later date along with statues of saints and images of sorts.
The scripture is very clear that Jesus as ‘a person’ in a resurrected body is seated at The right hand of the Father.
The early church practiced the breaking of the bread in an act of remembrance 1Cor11:24 and a sacrament it is indeed.
It is the Holy Spirit which was sent by Jesus as His representative upon the earth that ministers grace to the one who eats this bread by faith, believing in what Jesus has already accomplished on calvary’s cross.
Nobody was eating Jesus and drinking His blood literally. it is spiritual food, Not literal.
Jesus likewise said that he was the vine and we the branches.
Jesus used many Metaphors & parables to drive home the truth to those who had the ears to Hear.
Our first parents lost eternal life with God by eating of all they chose, and not obeying God. Genesis Chapter 2: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. God the Son our Lord Jesus Christ tells us that if we believe in him and eat his flesh and drink his blood; we shall have eternal life and be raised up in the last day. John Chapter 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. God bless; and God bless our country and the whole world…
I still maintain that Jesus was speaking metaphorically inJn6..
Listen to Apostle Paul; After repeating the words of Jesus Jn6 in 1Cor11:24,25 He says; “For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes 1Cor11:26
He then goes on to say; For whoever eats the Bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord 1Cor11:27 To be guilty in that context is to take the cross of Christ in vain. He had previously made that clear In 1Cor10:16,17
“Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the One bread” there is nothing in both these passages about eating or drinking Flesh and Blood. 1Cor10:16,17
The Apostle is not saying that they are sharing the Blood of Christ contained in the cup by drinking the literal blood, nor are they sharing the literal flesh of Christ among themselves by eating it.
What is implied by the Apostle, is the spiritual reality of the believers unity among themselves, having become partakers of his sufferings on the cross. This fact is driven home in Vs 18 by the metaphor of Israel. “Look at the nation Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices sharers in the Alter”.
In other words when we remember the Lord’s death at the lord’s table, we all share in the blessing of what the shed blood and broken Body of the Lord has accomplished for us.
To do this in a Worthy manner is to receive blessings and unworthily Judgment.
We know that the catholic mass is the perpetual sacrifice of Christ. That is what transubstantiation is all about.
Apostle Peter says; ‘Christ suffered Once for sins’ 1Pet3:18 Rightly so there need be no more sacrifice.
He dies no more, but rather lives for evermore.
That’s right Lou! “for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” (Heb 9:26-28)
The bible does tells us that the Jews and many of his disciples believed that Jesus literally meant to eat his flesh. John 6: 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? John 6: 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? Then Jesus ask his disciples if His teaching will offend them. John 6: 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? Does Jesus tell them His Truth in John 6: 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. And at the last supper Jesus fulfills His promise. Matthew 26: 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
I do appreciate the commentary. God bless.
What evidence is there that “white wafer discs embedded into monstrances” was a Babylonian practice? If it was, what was it supposed to represent?
Joseph:You may want To Look At a Book On line By Alexander Hislop “The Two Babylon’s” His research Is thorough with historical Documentation.
Charles, the people thought Jesus was talking literally about his flesh because they were looking for literal food; He had just fed 5,000-plus in John 6, and they were looking for free meals (Jesus even says this in John 6:26-27, so given the context, He could not have been speaking literally about “eating My flesh”). Besides, as a devout Jew, Jesus never would have encouraged the literal drinking of blood because Jews considered consuming blood to be a gross sacrilege. Blood was the means of atonement and redemption, so it had sacred value. Finally, Jesus tell His disciples, “My words are spirit and they are life, the flesh profits nothing> (emphasis added).” That seems to indicate that Jesus did not speak in the way the doctrine of transubstantiation describes.
Compare Jesus’ words with these statements:
1. John 14:23: “Jesus replied, ‘Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.'” This seems to indicate a greater degree of permanence than what transubstantiation connotes, because even in Catholic doctrine, the Real Presence is not digested once the communicant receives the Eucharist.
2. Matthew 18-8-9: “So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.” If Jesus meant for Christians to take those words literally , then every Christian would be blind and maimed, beginning with the Apostles!
Jesus had a consistent way of phrasing things. Anything He said would have to take that rhetorical style into consideration.
Joseph; I fully agree with what you say. Often times we wrongly understand truth because we select verses to suit our theology rather than keeping things in context. as you rightly point out. God Spirit is that of order.
Charles; I once saw Jn6 as you do. I also, was raised up from youth on the catechism of Rome, which is in reality a condensed form of their theology. There is so much more beyond theological concepts. we are always to seek!
When the truth of the written word is given (revealed) from above and it contradicts our theologies, all that is left to do is to discard the old leaven.
God bless you
I am 51 years old and come a catholic family. But in March of 2005 I had a life changing spiritual experience; and I knew God was real. For the next 2 years I found myself searching for the Truth. I began reading the Bible for the first time in my life. My catholic faith was familiar to me, but I truly did not know the authentic catholic teaching of the church. When I read from the New Testament and the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ, I immediately felt the importance of his teaching on the matter of His body and blood. I looked at the catholic understanding and other christian understandings of the words of our Lord. And I knew immediately the catholic teaching. My wife who decided to become catholic after our first child was born is from a mostly evangelical protestant family, and I credit her uncle for helping me to read and understand the Bible in a fundamental way. I know that my wife’s uncle and myself don’t always see eye to eye on certain issues; but almost every Sunday I go to his house after church. We love each other and believe in our saviors commandment. John 13: [34] A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. [35] By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another. God Bless… I am looking forward to the Prophecy Summit. I signed up for the live streaming…
Evangelicals Use Occult Deception !
Heard of the coming blood moons? Is the pretrib rapture symbolized by anything in the heavens?
Hal Lindsey, influenced by occult astrology, asserts on p. 124 in “The Late Great Planet Earth” that the famous Sphinx in Egypt has the head of a “woman” – even though encyclopedias say it’s the head of a “man”! Hal’s plagiarism on that page of a 19th century British theologian is his acceptance of the occult Virgo-to-Leo theory – a “Christian” zodiac arbitrarily starting with Virgo (Virgin Mary) and ending with Leo (Christ returning as “Lion,” Rev. 5:5).
Those who swallow this guesswork often see Ursa Minor (part of Cancer which precedes Leo) as a heavenly “symbol” of a pretrib rapture!
Pretribs also insist on separating the “church” from “Israel” – but when you aren’t looking (or thinking) they blithely “prove” pretrib by the Jewish feasts in Leviticus, the stages of a Hebrew wedding (Google “Pretrib Rapture: A Staged Event”), and the one “taken” and the other “left” in “Jewish” Matthew 24!
Amazingly, Jewishness (and even anti-Jewishness) has been uncovered even in pretrib dispensationalism’s 19th century foundation (Google “Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism”)!
The current “blood moons” craze (promoted by lunar persons including rock musician Scottie Clarke and John Hagee) is tied to – you guessed it – the same Jewish feast days.
Yes, there’s something colored red in the future of the church, but I don’t have moons in mind. What will really turn red will be the collective faces of many when it finally dawns on them that their any-moment fly-away was nothing more than an end time hoax!
[The above was seen on the web & I just would like to share it.]
This information is invaluable. How can
I find out more?